76: Reframing Fear with Jennie Milton (AdrenaJen)

Rosie (00:00)

joining us today is fellow Aussie, Jen Milton, AKA Adrenogen. That'll make sense a bit later. Jen is an absolute badass. She typically spends most of the year in her van, chasing the wind and doing extreme sports in Alaska. And Jen, you're one of the only certified snow-kiting instructors in the world. And in 2019, you were...

Let's see if I get this right. The Australian women's kitesurfing champion at age 48.

Jennie Milton (00:36)

You

Rosie (00:37)

Which, you are anything but conventional and I just can't wait to dive into the episode. But before we do, my listeners know I never plan these episodes, but just a heads up, we're probably gonna cover some big topics, touch on fear, near death experiences. So skip this if you need to, or come back when you're in a better head space. With that out of the way, Jen, thank you so much for joining us, welcome.

Jennie Milton (00:39)

It's.

Well, thanks so much for having me, Rosie, on the podcast. I'm so excited to be talking to a fellow Aussie. You know, I've been living in America and everybody has American accents. So it's just so refreshing to be talking to someone that I can't hear their accent and we just seem to...

Rosie (01:20)

Hahaha!

Jennie Milton (01:22)

connect and speak the same language. So thanks for having me and I'm so excited to share some stories and lessons from life with the audience who's listening today.

Rosie (01:33)

Yeah, thank you. I think this is gonna be a good one. And I wanna start, there's a whipper snipper going in the background, but let's just roll with it. Don't know if you can hear that. Let's start with your nickname, Adrenogen. I've got a feeling I know where this comes from, but share with us, where on earth did this nickname come

Jennie Milton (01:54)

Well, Adrenogen has been my nickname since I was in my 20s and it stands for like adrenaline Jenny, shortened to Adrenogen. And it actually came, I think probably from my brother. He started calling me Adrenogen. I've always been into adrenaline based sports. Since I've been a kid, I was always the one into the freestyle skiing and windsurfing and

Rosie (02:00)

Wow.

Jennie Milton (02:24)

So adrenaline-based sports were my thing. And I actually had a retail store in my 20s until my late 30s called Adrenaline Sports. So I was Jenny from Adrenaline Sports, which turned into Adrenogen and that name has just stuck and is now actually the name of my business, my branding on Instagram, everywhere you'll find me under Adrenogen.

Rosie (02:27)

Yeah.

love it so much and it sounds like you might have been a bit of a local legend. Bigger than a local legend now though.

Jennie Milton (02:54)

Well, you know, it's actually not true because I mentioned that my brother gave me this nickname and my brother is an absolute legend. He was actually the first Australian to ever get a gold medal in Paralympic or Olympic sports. And believe it or not, he was just inducted into the Australian Legends Hall of Fame.

Rosie (03:01)

Yeah.

you

Wow. Wow!

Jennie Milton (03:20)

only two weeks ago down in Melbourne.

He was standing there next to Mick Fanning and all the superstars of the high end sports. So my brother is a true legend and I've always been known as Michael Milton's sister. But I did get a bit of a name for myself in my own sports of kite surfing, snow kiting and big mountain skiing.

Rosie (03:39)

Yeah.

Wow, runs in the family and congratulations to your brother. Like that is a huge achievement. How awesome is that?

Jennie Milton (03:49)

I got goosebumps just talking about it. I mean, I'm so proud of my brother. And part of the reason why I am the way I am today is because, you know, I've had somebody who's inspired me all my life. Someone who's pushed me, someone that I've competed with and someone that has, you know, he lost his leg to cancer when he was nine. So he's been an amputee and

Rosie (04:02)

Mmm.

Jennie Milton (04:13)

I couldn't really use any of my excuses when my own brother was doing everything on one leg. I really just had to say, let's do this. and so no excuses in my family. And I think that's what really pushed me as much as it pushed him too.

Rosie (04:21)

Mmm.

Yeah, I imagine courage has played a large role, both in your brother's life and your life and probably your family at large. So

Where do you think courage comes from?

Jennie Milton (04:45)

love the word courage. Rosie, seriously, courage is something that is such a great, I mean, do we call it courage a skill? Do we call it a trait in our personality? I mean, what a great conversation it is to talk about courage. What I do know is that courage comes from overcoming fear. We have to find courage to overcome the fear.

Rosie (05:08)

you

Jennie Milton (05:11)

And then on the other side of that, we feel excitement and we feel confidence. So really, if we start talking about where does that courage come from, it comes from the ability to be able to overcome our fears. And I've had a lot of scary things happen to me in my life. And I've already mentioned something that happened at a young age, which was my brother getting cancer and us being told that he had to have his leg amputated.

Rosie (05:35)

Mmm.

Jennie Milton (05:40)

What a scary, fearful situation that we're exposed to at a young age. And everybody deals with fear. I mean, I meet people in all my groups that have a fear of failure, a fear of not being good enough, a fear of not being loved. mean, everybody has a fear. And it's not until we actually find the courage to overcome that fear, then we actually can get addicted to the feeling you get.

Rosie (05:54)

Mm-hmm.

Jennie Milton (06:09)

when you've overcome that fear, that feels so good. You know, when you're scared of something and you finally do it, you go live on Facebook or you speak in front of people or whatever that thing is that you're scared of. If you can actually overcome that and do it, boy, there's some excitement there. You might even feel proud of yourself. And what a great feeling that is. That feeling's so much better than the feeling of sitting in fear and running away.

Rosie (06:16)

Yeah.

Yeah.

you

Jennie Milton (06:39)

and being mad at yourself because you didn't do the thing that you really wanted to do. And so I think my brother and I both had so many scary things happen to us in our lives. We found the courage to overcome them. And then we both got addicted to that amazing feeling that you get when you overcome the fear. And that can be something that actually motivates you and drives you and pushes you to do.

bigger and scarier things. And I think that's something that a lot of especially extreme sports athletes tend to get. We all get addicted to finding the courage to overcome the fear.

Rosie (07:21)

And I think that's relevant even for people like me who are a bit boring and don't do adrenaline sports. think overcoming fear is, it's a huge part, I think you're right, of living courageously, making life better because if we don't overcome that fear, how are we ever going to grow? And you know, it's clear already just from the little bit you've shared with us that fear has been a big part of your life.

And I remember when we met a couple of months ago, you were only, I think it was 10 weeks or something ridiculous out of your third brain surgery.

I'd love for you to share with the audience what happened in the lead up to that. Cause your life has changed pretty drastically this year.

Jennie Milton (08:08)

Yeah, Rosie, you know, this isn't my favorite story, but it is a story that I'm very happy to share because I think it's really important for everybody to hear this story because, you know, they tend to see me as this, you know, extreme sports athlete, sky surfing in massive waves and skiing down big mountains. And they just think that I must be fearless.

Rosie (08:16)

Mm.

Jennie Milton (08:34)

And that's not the case actually. I believe in having fear as my guide and I think it's really important to have fear because that's what keeps us safe. It's fear is what turns the adrenaline on as adrenaline. I love that adrenaline. And when that adrenaline turns on, it keeps us safe. But this year, I've seriously was, I'd never been this terrified in my life. And that was when

Rosie (08:49)

Yeah.

Jennie Milton (09:03)

I got diagnosed with brain aneurysms. And for those of you who don't know what a brain aneurysm is, it's when we have high blood pressure in our head and the walls of the arteries might be tending to be a little weak, whether that's a genetic thing that I have, I don't really know. But the walls of the arteries start to expand and they start to blow out and they can form.

Rosie (09:06)

Wow.

Jennie Milton (09:31)

like bubbles called berries, or I had one at the back where it was just blowing out, like having too much water in the hose and it starts expanding. And unfortunately, most people don't know they've got a brain aneurysm until that artery bursts and ruptures, they call it. And at that point you have a stroke. And depending on how big that aneurysm is and how big the leak of blood into your brain is,

Rosie (09:38)

Wow.

Jennie Milton (09:59)

is going to determine whether you have a stroke you can recover from, whether a stroke that is going to leave you with disabilities or whether it's a stroke that actually ends your life. So when I was told that I had brain aneurysms, you know, one side of me was, was, thank goodness they figured out what's causing my headaches. That's a positive thing to me, Google researching what's an aneurysm going, holy shit, this is really serious.

Rosie (10:17)

Right, right.

Jennie Milton (10:26)

to then just feeling so much gratitude to the doctors that found them before they ruptured. And I didn't have to go through that stroke that could have left me in a variety of conditions. So I was so grateful that they'd found them, but then the reality hit in a couple of days later, I'm speaking to a brain surgeon and

Rosie (10:50)

Mm-mm.

Jennie Milton (10:51)

And he's telling me, you need to go in for brain surgery and this is really urgent. We're worried that it could rupture at any time and you're going in for your first brain surgery next week. There'll be another one two weeks after that. And I had a third one just before we met in order to put some stents in their flow diverters to take the pressure off those walls that were starting to expand. They put in coils, they put in stents.

And I'm so grateful that I found a doctor who was old enough to have lots of experience, but young enough to have all the modern methods. So I didn't have to lose my hair. He went in through the femoral artery and I just am so grateful to him and grateful that they have that modern technology that could avoid me going through having a stroke. But I was terrified.

Rosie (11:28)

Mm-hmm.

Jennie Milton (11:51)

absolutely terrified the night before that surgery. I mean, we can get into some of my scary stories. I've been caught in avalanches. I've been chased by polar bears, but I have never been as scared as I was the night before I went in for brain surgery. And I'm just so lucky that I have some really good mindset and mental strategies for dealing with fear. We've already started talking about that and I use them in my sports all the time, but

They had tend to, they'd come like driving a manual car. You just don't think about them anymore. I would just overcome fear without having to analyze it and take the steps. Whereas this time I'd never been through brain surgery and I was terrified and I really had to focus on my mental strategy of how was I going to deal with this? And I thought to myself, wow, how do other people go through this that don't have a,

have a history of extreme sports and overcoming fear hundreds and hundreds of times like I do, boy, they must just be really, really struggling with the mental side. And I made the decision when I woke up in ICU the next day, it was quite a spiritual moment as I looked at Jesus on the cross on the wall and just so grateful to be alive, I said,

Rosie (13:10)

Mmm.

Jennie Milton (13:17)

I've been put here, I've been saved to share these lessons and help people overcome fear, help them with those strategies. And it felt like a real calling, Rosie. I mean, it was just such a spiritual moment to have survived that.

Rosie (13:32)

Wow.

Yeah. Wow. It sounds like your life changed overnight. From having headaches to going, holy shit, I've got brain aneurysms and I could die at any moment kind of thing. Like that's essentially what it was. And in you go, you're getting brain surgery and you didn't just have it once, had it three times.

Jennie Milton (13:55)

You know, felt like a bit of a superhero when I'm doing my sports. We get into this flow state, we can overcome fear. And I feel like I've got my, you know, I put my wet suit on, big thick wet suit when I'm going out there kite surfing and it feels like I'm wearing my black, you know, superhero suit. But all of a sudden it felt like there was kryptonite in the room and I had lost all of my powers. And I really had to...

Rosie (13:59)

Yeah!

Jennie Milton (14:24)

find and keep a positive mindset. You know, I could have, I could have easily slid down that slippery slope into depression and just been so devastated that all of my, was grieving my dreams. was grieving my goals. I was in a team of women and we were planning to snow kite across Greenland. I had dreams of being the world champion. I was training hard. My body was

Rosie (14:41)

Yes.

Bye.

Jennie Milton (14:52)

I thought was fit and healthy. And all of a sudden I'm being told, no, actually you're close to death and you're not gonna be able to do your sport for the foreseeable future. that was just devastating to me, but I'm the type of person and I've done enough work in terms of mindset and mental attitude that I was like,

The best way for my body to deal with this and heal is to stay positive and not get all stressed and depressed. And so all of a sudden I was like, okay, I need to pivot my passions. Doesn't mean I'm losing my passions of doing the sport. I can still share them. I can still inspire people with my stories of all the things I've done. And I remember...

Rosie (15:32)

Right.

Jennie Milton (15:45)

you know, doing some Tony Robbins training, which I just love if anybody has, who's a Tony Robbins fan here? I hope there's some in the audience, right? But he's always positive and he's always showing us, you know, a mindset of believing that anything's possible. And so I remember him saying, is there more knowledge in a graveyard?

Rosie (15:48)

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Jennie Milton (16:13)

or more knowledge in a library.

Rosie (16:16)

Mmm.

Jennie Milton (16:18)

Boy, and the answer, which is such a sad answer, is there's more knowledge in a graveyard because people die without sharing their knowledge, without sharing the stories of their lives. And I made a decision at that moment, I felt like Tony was pointing at me and going, right, you've been saved. You have the time right now to share your message, your lessons, your experiences, your stories.

Rosie (16:30)

Mm-hmm.

Jennie Milton (16:47)

with other people in order to inspire, to give them hope. And so I dived into writing my first book. It had to go into that library and I dived into sharing my stories. And that's why I'm so grateful to you, Rosie, for having me on here today and giving me the chance to share these stories and this message with more people. Thank you so much.

Rosie (16:58)

Holy moly!

It's my honor. That's what the podcast is all about really. Elevating voices and sharing stories, knowledge, experiences, because we all have so much to learn and I want to go back a little bit. So your life has changed. Brain aneurysms, surgery and life doesn't return to normal. It's not like, hey, I'm fixed. Let's, let's go. And you've mentioned a few times how grateful you are and then you're

You've written your first book and it's about to be launched and you're doing speaking and all these amazing things, but how did you?

honor and experience that grief and all those feelings and then also pivot into such a purposeful place.

Jennie Milton (18:02)

That's a great question. And it's one that is a hard, hard answer. And it all happened very, very quickly, Rosie. When I was in ICU and I opened my eyes and I had survived the brain surgery, as I've already mentioned, it just felt so spiritual. And I had prepared. I had prepared for this moment.

and I had a couple of special things with me. I'd love to share with you. What do you take ICU to help you get through such a traumatic event? And I took my two favorite things with me. And the first thing I took was my little toy polar bear. I have a little stuffed polar bear that I take with me everywhere. It's small enough that I can fit it in my pocket. I can fit it in my bag. It's not a big thing. And...

Rosie (18:34)

Yeah, please.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jennie Milton (18:58)

It reminds me, the polar bear is my spirit animal. And I always have felt like it's really important to feel a connection with mother nature, with weather, with the animal world. And it's kind of fun to choose, okay, what's my spirit animal? What am I going to sort of emulate? And the polar bear to me is a symbol of strength and power. But it also reminded me at that particular moment,

Rosie (19:13)

Mmm.

Jennie Milton (19:27)

that the polar bear is also a symbol of patience. And they have such great patience. In the wintertime, they sit in their den for months on end, and they don't necessarily go to sleep like a big grizzly bear in his den and sleep all winter. They just rest and they are patient. And then if they wait until the right moment when they might see a seal or they see some movement of something out there,

Rosie (19:30)

Mmm.

Jennie Milton (19:56)

and that's when they're gonna make their move. And so my spirit polar bear animal reminded me that I needed to be patient at this time. This wasn't the time to be active. This was the time to be in my den and rest and prepare a time of healing. And so I think that was really powerful to remind me that this was gonna take some time.

And I didn't know how long it was really the journey was. It's not like you break your arm and the doctor tells you, okay, six weeks and then you can start back at the gym. This was an unknown period of time. And that was, that's difficult to deal with when you don't know how long things are going to take because how do you set that goal? Now, the second thing I had in ICU and I might be the first person in the whole world to ever fly a kite.

Rosie (20:32)

Right.

Jennie Milton (20:53)

in ICU in my hospital bed. And I brought, as I've mentioned, you know, I'm a professional kite surfer and snow kiter and kites are, you know, kites are just my connection to my best friend, the wind. Kites bring me so much joy and they really are a symbol of joy to me. And so I made sure I had the world's smallest kite with me and it's very small.

Rosie (20:55)

my god.

Jennie Milton (21:21)

and it's made out of tissue paper and bamboo kind of toothpicks. And my husband helped open it and I got it out and I was able to wave this kite around my head and it was flying and I could see the tails waving. And there's a picture of me smiling, feeling joy that even though I had just had brain surgery, I was out of action. I was still flying my kite. I was still doing.

Rosie (21:23)

Yeah.

Mmm.

Jennie Milton (21:50)

what I love. just wasn't that big kite that tows me up mountains or in waves. It was just a little kite. And this was a a great starting point to remind me that I don't have to give up everything. I just need to pivot a little bit and find, you know, find the right tools and the right stages of everything that I wanted to achieve.

Rosie (22:15)

I can just imagine you with this little miniature kite, like that's beautiful. You know, swinging it above your head. And I'm sure that doctors and nurses got a real kick out of that because I see you can be a heavy place.

Jennie Milton (22:33)

It definitely is a very heavy pace and you're in that stage where you've made it through your surgery, but things can still go wrong. And I was in that stage for a day or so where I was still being monitored. I still had a lot of cables and lines and stuff hanging out of me. And so that was a, that is and was a really hard place to be.

Rosie (22:43)

Hmm.

Hmm.

Mm.

Jennie Milton (23:03)

but having my polar bear, my kite with me, my favorite foods really made it the best that I could under the circumstances.

Rosie (23:13)

you

Did having the polar bear, the kite, and you mentioned your favourite foods, did that give you a sense of connection to the old gen? Is that why it was so powerful?

Jennie Milton (23:27)

I think so, and it also gave me some control. I can still choose. I can choose what I want to do. I can choose what I want to eat. I can choose the mindset that I want to have because you feel like you're out of control sometimes. I had no control over my brain. I had no control over whether the brain surgeon would do a good job or not. And so I think it made me feel like I'm still in control of my life. And even though

Rosie (23:30)

Mmm. Mmm.

Jennie Milton (23:56)

it may not go the way that I thought it would at this point in time. I'm still in control. I can still choose to make a left or a right turn and choose the life that I was gonna live. I think the other thing which was very profound that I realized nearly instantly was I'm alive and it may not have turned out that way. And I...

Rosie (24:08)

Yeah.

Mmm.

Jennie Milton (24:25)

felt like every day was just a bonus, a blessing. And I was going to live every day like it was my last. Now, if you had one day on earth left, would you sit there crying and being depressed? I wouldn't. I would want to give my polar bear a hug, try and fly a kite, eat my favorite food, give my husband a kiss. And you know, that that was the best day that I could possibly, you know, have at that point in time. And I, I still have

that attitude and I think that's why I'm using the word grateful so much because I'm so grateful for what I have and I'm not being resentful to what I've lost at this point in time.

Rosie (25:04)

Mm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think resentment can really hold us back, but it would be so easy to fall into those feelings of resentment. Like this isn't fair. You know, you, you never, well, actually I was going to make an assumption saying you never would have chosen this to happen. but it sounds like there's been a lot of positives that have come out of this. So what are your thoughts?

on that? Is gratefulness saying, I'm happy this has happened to me? Can you unpack that a bit more?

Jennie Milton (25:39)

Yeah, I've thought a lot about that, Rosie. This is a great question. I believe the universe

only gives us what we can handle. And I believe that I love a challenge. And I think the universe has given me this challenge to deal with. And it's come at a time in my life that in a way, I feel like I've been training for this my whole life. I thought I was training for athletic events. But in a way, I felt like, wow,

boy, I'm glad I did all that mental work on my own self-confidence, self-esteem, staying positive, turning negatives into positives. I did all that work and I didn't realize that that was gonna be such a benefit when I had to have brain surgery. My body was fit and healthy and strong and I chose to eat organic food. So again, my body was prepared.

Rosie (26:20)

Mmm.

Jennie Milton (26:44)

for this situation. And I think that the universe has gifted me, and I'm saying this as a gift, which is a weird thing to say about such a dramatic event. They have gifted me this experience to help me go to that next level and also to share this experience with others in order to serve, to give back.

Rosie (26:54)

Mm-hmm.

Jennie Milton (27:10)

I have this little saying that I made up and I went, after every setback in life, it's important that we need to lay back. That's my polar bear lesson of taking it easy. We need to lay back. And then after we lay back and we allow our bodies to rest and heal, then is the time to have a comeback, right? To actually, okay, how am I gonna come back?

Rosie (27:24)

Yeah.

Jennie Milton (27:36)

And boy, don't we love a comeback, all the best movies that we watch, all about people having something traumatic happen and then they have a comeback. And then the best step after the comeback is the give back. And it makes me so proud of myself to now be giving back to others. And I think it was a good reminder in my...

Rosie (27:39)

Yeah!

Jennie Milton (28:00)

you know, forties and early fifties, it was all about me. You know, I didn't have children. It was all about me trying to build my business, achieve my goals, be the best me I could be. And I think that's really important for us to do that, to look after ourselves and to build our, our self development, self esteem, self confidence. But now I've been gifted this experience, which has really taken me to that next stage in life, which is

Rosie (28:04)

Hmm.

Jennie Milton (28:29)

Okay, now this gives me the chance to give something really special back to others. And that came out when I was writing my first book it's called Gale and the Red Kite of Courage. It's about kites, it's about courage. It's a true story about my life. And I wanted to share my story of growing up with my brother having cancer in order to give back.

Rosie (28:43)

I love that.

Jennie Milton (28:56)

to other kids who are dealing with that because it's not just about the brother or the sister or the family members who's having cancer. It's about every single family member and the pain and the courage they need to find to deal with the cancer as well. So this story is definitely written from the perspective of the sibling and the sibling finding joy and courage from flying a kite.

and then getting to fly a kite with her brother who's standing there with one leg and they both are proud of each other because they'd found courage together. it was, when I wrote that story, it was really to give back to those kids. And I'm so honored for my book now to be in some kids cancer wards, in hospitals, in some libraries. I mean, and the books, it's not to raise money.

Rosie (29:51)

That's amazing.

Jennie Milton (29:56)

it is to actually raise money for the charity. And believe it or not, there's a children's cancer charity in Australia called Red Kite. And that was how I came up with the name of the book. So I've written this story, it's giving back to a cancer charity. It's giving some joy to these kids. In the back of the book, I teach them how to make their own kite that they can fly indoors and wave around their head, just like I did in that hospital.

Rosie (30:06)

Yes!

cool.

Jennie Milton (30:26)

I realized that through writing that book and giving back to others, it was actually the best therapy I could ever do for myself, which was such a bonus because I had to dive into the hard story of remembering when I was depressed after my brother got cancer. And it was me really rewriting that story in the words of a child.

Rosie (30:33)

Mmmmm

Jennie Milton (30:53)

And it really was the therapy I needed to remind myself that no matter what happens in life, whether it's losing a leg to cancer, whether it's getting brain surgery and having aneurysms, whether it's, know, anything that is happening, we're all going through something traumatic, right? And whether it's breaking up with a relationship or having a business that's not working, we can all still find joy.

Rosie (31:12)

Mm-hmm.

Jennie Milton (31:21)

doing something that we're passionate about. And it can be as simple as flying a kite.

Rosie (31:27)

I want to go fly a kite now.

Jennie Milton (31:31)

Let's do it. I'm always up for flying cards. Always.

Rosie (31:36)

Why doesn't that

surprise me? Do you think you would have got to this stage of giving back in such a huge way if you didn't experience the trauma of finding out you had brain aneurysms and going through the surgeries?

Jennie Milton (31:57)

No, I think that that is why this is a gift from the universe. And I've been given this situation to go through because it has really motivated me and given me a huge why in order to give back because I don't know how long my life is. As I mentioned, I felt like a superhero. I was going to live forever. I really didn't have an end plan of the day that our life ends on

Rosie (31:58)

Hmm.

Right?

Jennie Milton (32:25)

on this earth. And so this was just the motivation, the kick up the ass, whatever you want to call it, to get off my butt and to do something because I didn't know how long I had. my goal was to get that book to the publisher before my third brain surgery so that if I didn't survive the third brain surgery, at least the book would be in the library. so...

Rosie (32:47)

Wow.

Jennie Milton (32:49)

I think it's been a huge motivation. I always believed and have always given to charity. Again, it's one of Tony Robbins messages that in order for us to receive from the world, we really need to give to the world. And so I've always tried to donate money to a charity that I really believe in, but never to this extent where it's not about me.

Rosie (33:11)

Hmm... Hmm...

Jennie Milton (33:17)

trying to make money in my business. It's about me trying to make an impact in the world now.

Rosie (33:24)

You're leaving a legacy. Really? Mmm.

Jennie Milton (33:27)

leaving a legacy that that

is some wording that yes, I definitely, definitely have spoken those words and making sure that I shared some of these stories. It's made me realize that the universe has actually sent me experiences my whole life. Yes, this experience of the brain surgery is really powerful right now at this moment. But I mean, how many Australians have been caught in avalanches? How many Australians

Rosie (33:51)

Mm-hmm.

Jennie Milton (33:57)

have been charged by polar bears? How many Australians have gotten to stand on a start line with 400 kites waving around and you're trying not to get tangled? And how many people have had that mindset at the age of 48 to believe that they can be a champion in sport when all of the other competitors are half your age? I've been...

I've been gifted these experiences all my life and I didn't realize until my life was nearly over how much those are gifts to me and I would be selfish if I didn't share those with others. Those are really powerful stories and I hope that when people hear those stories that they think, wow.

I thought I was too old to go and compete in that triathlon. know, I thought I was, I was too old to do that, but Jenny did it. So maybe I can do it too. You know, if, if I can make a difference in some people's lives, I know that when it is my time to go, I'm to be so proud of myself. And that's really, really what it is about right now is when it is my time to go, I want to be lying there and just going.

Rosie (34:46)

Right? Right?

Alright. Mmm.

Mm.

Jennie Milton (35:12)

Wow, I've really made the most of it, especially in this last sector of my life since the brain surgeries. I'm proud of myself. I've spent so much of my life, I don't know, you may have experienced this too, Rosie, and I'm sure there's people who are listening, of when we're young, all we want is to make our parents proud of us. We'll do anything, in fact, we'll actually make decisions that don't suit us or our values or our personalities.

Rosie (35:34)

Mm.

Yup.

Jennie Milton (35:40)

just to make our parents proud. And then when we become teenagers and in our twenties, all we wanna do is have our peers approval. We're craving approval and we're doing things to impress people, to get them to be proud of us, to love us, to think that we are worthy, worthy of love. And it's not until now, and I can't believe it's taken me this fricking long to figure out.

Rosie (35:49)

Hmm.

Jennie Milton (36:08)

that it's really all about us being proud of ourselves. And I'm so grateful that this traumatic experience has gotten to me to that point where I'm like, man, I just wanna be proud of myself. Writing a children's book and donating money to a cancer charity, boy, that's something to be proud of, right? Sharing these lessons and trying to help other people that are going through this and sharing some of my techniques for overcoming fear. Boy, I'm proud of that.

Rosie (36:11)

Ugh.

Yes.

Mmm.

Jennie Milton (36:37)

You know, telling

my husband that I love him every day and making sure that all my friends and family know how much I love and care for them and telling them is something I should have done every day all my life, but I didn't. And so that's why this experience is a gift. I'm grateful for it, which is such a weird thing to be saying. I'm grateful for brain aneurysms and brain surgery, but I don't feel like I could have gotten to this point in life.

Rosie (37:02)

Right.

Jennie Milton (37:07)

without it.

Rosie (37:08)

Hmm. That is such a powerful reframe. I want to dig in more to fear because you've mentioned, you made a comparison about traumatic experiences like yours. You mentioned being chased by a polar bear and people that actually happened to Jen being caught in an avalanche. That also happened. So these near death experiences are not new to you. But you also then mentioned

Jennie Milton (37:32)

You

Rosie (37:34)

you know, a traumatic experience for someone might be breaking up with a partner. And so what, I think trauma and fear are related. I'm curious to hear your thoughts, but what, what even is fear? What is trauma?

Jennie Milton (37:49)

think we all have a scale, right? You hear a lot of people talking about, hey, if you wanna move to the next level in life, business, relationships, you have to be uncomfortable, right? Are you hearing that a lot? They're using the word, take uncomfortable action, is what they're saying. And I think that reminds us that we have a scale in everything, okay? I'm gonna talk about temperature just as the analogy to sort of demonstrate my point, okay?

Rosie (37:52)

Mm-mm.

Right. huh.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Jennie Milton (38:19)

we all have a temperature range and most people are like, my God, I'm getting cold. I'm going to turn on the heater and they stay in that range. my goodness, in Australia, I'm getting hot. Quick turn on the air conditioner. And they keep themselves in this really small range. And so then when I say, Hey, you want to go skiing in Alaska? They're like, brrrr, it's way too cold. That is way outside my comfort zone. Right. And, and so I think I have spent a lot of time trying not to turn on the heater.

Rosie (38:25)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jennie Milton (38:47)

trying not to, right? Try not to turn on the air conditioner, right? Open the window so that my temperature range expands. And that has given me some really great experiences in life. I get to go up to Alaska and walk inside blue ice caves, right? From that the ice is thousands of years old and the ice is so blue and I'll camp there and watch the Northern Lights.

And yeah, I'm in a minus 40 sleeping bag with two puffy down jackets and three beanies on my head. Who cares? What a great experience. I'm not thinking about I'm cold. I'm thinking, boy, what a cool experience I've allowed myself to have because I didn't have the fear of getting cold, right? I'm in Australia. I'm going to the beach. I'm sweating my butt off, right? I don't need to go inside and turn the air conditioner on. I'm very happy to expand that temperature range.

I think now I'm gonna bring it back to fear and we all have a fear range. Now my brother and I have grown up challenging each other for skiing bigger and steeper mountains. our fear range is getting better. I call it fear tolerance. How much tolerance do you have for fear? And how many times have you overcome your fear?

Rosie (39:49)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Jennie Milton (40:08)

Right? It might be like going to the gym. The first time you go to the gym, you're to do the weights and you can't lift very hard weights and you're going to feel sore and you're going to be very uncomfortable. That first time you find yourself in a fear, it's going to be very uncomfortable. You're not going to want to do it. And, and, and, and we have a primal fear response built into us, right? As, as wild animals, as humans, we have this fight, flight.

Rosie (40:24)

Hmm.

Jennie Milton (40:38)

freeze and fawn. A lot of people don't talk about fawn, but there's four primal fear responses that we do. And so it's totally natural for us to go, my God, I'm scared, quick, run away. my God, I'm scared. I'm just going to freeze. I'm not going to do anything. I'm not going to, you know, do that uncomfortable action. I'm just going to do nothing. And so we have that as a primal fear response and we're going to feel that. And we need to say to ourselves,

Rosie (40:41)

No.

Mm.

Jennie Milton (41:07)

Am I being charged by a polar bear or wild lion? Is my life really in danger? Do I really need to use my primal fear response? Am I gonna die if I go live on Facebook? Am I gonna die if I have that conversation with that cute guy over there that I wanna talk to? Am I gonna die if I go and ask my boss for a raise? No, you're not gonna die. So it's really, we feel the fear.

Rosie (41:12)

Right.

Yes.

Jennie Milton (41:37)

But

in reality, we can overcome that fear and have the possibility of having a positive result. If we run away from fear and don't do that thing, there's no chance of a positive result at all. So I like to reframe fear as what if we call it a challenge, right? It's a challenge to go and speak to the cute guy. It's a challenge to go and ask your boss for a raise.

Rosie (41:57)

Mmm.

Jennie Milton (42:05)

Right? It's a challenge to go live on social media, which is a huge fear for so many people these days. Right? And so most of us love a challenge. Do you love a challenge, Rosie? If someone like you says, Rosie, you can't do that. And you're like, yes, I can. Just watch me. I mean, we have that inbred in us as well. So when we feel fear, if we can go ding, ding, ding, I got fear.

Rosie (42:11)

Mm-hmm.

Hell yeah!

Yeah, just watch me!

Jennie Milton (42:33)

my gosh, I'm having a primal fear response, which is a natural bodily reaction to try and save us from a threat. Okay. If we can realize that and just pause for a second and go, don't be stupid Jen. You're not going to die. If you go live on Facebook, you're to feel uncomfortable for a second, right? But then you turn it into a challenge. I'm going to challenge myself to do that. And you know what? Then there's the possibility of winning.

Rosie (42:48)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Jennie Milton (43:00)

the possibility

of being proud of ourselves, the possibility of having a positive result from that action. And I think if you can really reframe it like that and do it, our fear tolerance grows. And then we do it again and our fear tolerance goes. You know, maybe go skydiving or bungee jumping, find an experience that's so scary.

but it's safe, right? There's safety stuff involved. you, you know, go, go swimming with sharks in a cage. If you do any of those experiences, your fear tolerance is going to expand and you'll go home and you'll feel like a freaking superhero because you've just done this amazing, scary thing and you, you're alive, you survived and you've got the photo to put on social media to prove it. And that is a great feeling. And so if we can do that again and again and again.

Rosie (43:25)

Mm-hmm.

Hell yeah.

Jennie Milton (43:53)

our fear tolerance is increasing and we'll find we can achieve more and more in our lives, no matter what area of your life you're trying to challenge yourself.

Rosie (44:04)

Yeah,

it's like a muscle. The more you use it, the stronger it gets. And you know, that tolerance grows. And you mentioned the feeling of, I feel alive. And I recently, probably a couple of years ago, I went skydiving and I'm not someone who even likes rollercoasters, anything like that. No way. And for whatever reason, I was like, yeah, let me go skydiving. A friend asked me, it was his 40th. And I'm like, he was freaking out.

Jennie Milton (44:11)

Mmm.

Rosie (44:33)

We're in the plane, he's freaking out, he's done it before. I'm just sitting there, cool as a cucumber, and I thought, this is weird. Then we jump out and I'm like, holy fuck, what have I done? But after that split second, was, I literally, there's a video of me, I put my arms out and went, I feel alive. That's what I shouted out.

Jennie Milton (44:56)

then you know exactly what I'm talking about, Rosie. And I hope there's other people here listening that have had that experience. And I want you to all think about that feeling of, did it, I feel alive. That was fricking awesome, right? How good that was. Now we can't go skydiving every day, but we can find other fears in our life that we're having and push ourselves a little bit to overcome it and get that same feeling.

Rosie (44:59)

Mm-hmm.

Yes!

No.

.

So could you give us an example of something less extreme? Some people are never gonna go skydiving. That's cool. So what's something that perhaps they could relate to? What's something they could start with to help increase that window of tolerance?

Jennie Milton (45:38)

Well, I've mentioned it before and I see it in a lot of my business and my speaking classes. I've just done a bunch of courses on becoming a keynote speaker so that I can get really good at telling my stories and speak on some really big stages so that I can share my message with more and more people. And that is something that a lot of people have a fear of. They have a fear of speaking in public. And some of these girls that were in my, or women I should say, in my group,

Rosie (45:48)

Mmm.

Yeah.

Jennie Milton (46:07)

just incredible speakers. had great stories to share. And then in our group, I'm like, well, did you share that on social media? no, you know, they have this fear of actually sharing on social media, putting themselves out there, whether it's a photograph of themselves, whether it's sharing a win, celebrating a win. I think a lot of us grow up being told, you know, don't

you're up yourself if you brag about yourself or you tell people the good things that we're doing. But I'm all about celebrate your wins. And I think that's another thing that athletes have. We all want to win. We want a freaking trophy. We want a medal around our neck. And you know what? We're to tell everybody. So we love sharing our wins. And we don't have to win the Olympic gold medal to share your win. I share wins every single day. I woke up today. I'm alive.

Rosie (46:44)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah!

Jennie Milton (47:05)

yay, I'm winning. know, I achieved something yesterday. I got an email sent out. Yay, I'm winning. If you start celebrating your wins, again, it's something you get addicted to, that feeling of being proud of ourselves and that we achieved something that we wanted to do and we got it done, right? Even if it's not perfect, doesn't matter. We got it done. Done is better than perfect, right? And so,

Rosie (47:05)

Hmm?

Mmm.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jennie Milton (47:35)

I think people can relate to social media. And once you post something and you share something about yourself, share a win, share what you were doing, not quite sharing what you had for dinner, that doesn't work. You have to get a little bit more personal and vulnerable than that. And then going live, going live and actually sharing your words, having a voice, sharing your opinion.

sharing something that you believe in and doing it live. So there's no making it perfect by reading a script. I think is a huge fear for a lot of people. And there's people out there who have businesses and they have these incredible products and they are able to help so many people do these amazing thing. Yet there's a fear of marketing themselves. There's a fear of going on social media, which is our way of advertising.

Rosie (48:08)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Jennie Milton (48:33)

and marketing our product in order to help others and they have a fear and that holds them back and they're like, my business isn't working. Well, you, you, social media, you know? So I think a lot of people, especially, you know, entrepreneurs or people building businesses can relate to that.

Rosie (48:42)

I wonder why.

Mmm. You mentioned, you know, finding their voice and sharing, and I really resonate that. think it's a huge part of how I've grown as a person. Like starting the podcast was to find my voice. And I, you know, I've shed some really vulnerable things on here and I've had guests on who have, and it is liberating. Is it scary? Yes. Do I get a rush afterwards? Yes. It's, it...

It is so liberating and empowering, I think. And in Australia, I don't think it's a term used worldwide. don't know, cultural kind of thing. You know, we say it's tall poppy syndrome. we, you know, we can't stand up and be proud of what we've done. That's bragging. You can't do that. That makes you a bad person. Well, there's a difference between celebrating your wins and bragging.

It's not a bad thing to celebrate and be proud of yourself. We all deserve that. Stop hiding in a shell. You know, let the world see how beautiful you are.

Jennie Milton (49:45)

They're definitely.

And I think as women, also have that extra, it makes it extra hard for us because we worry about what we look like as well as, you know, worried about what we're saying and standing up for ourselves and giving a view. know, Rosie, you should be so proud of yourself for running a podcast and sharing these stories and inviting people on to share their lessons in life with.

Rosie (50:08)

Hmm.

Jennie Milton (50:21)

with your audience, you're giving back too. So I really feel like when we're having this conversation that you relate to exactly what I'm saying and you're already taking these brave steps. I'm sure the first episode you did for your podcast took a lot of courage, right?

Rosie (50:22)

Thank you.

Hmm.

my God. Yep. I just want to say

thank you. think people tell us, I'm proud of you. you know, people, and, when we receiving that feedback, we downplay it. it's nothing or whatever. My challenge to people listening, say thank you. that. You're dismissing what that other person is saying by going, no, no. And you're also dismissing what you've done. Be proud. That just gives, they're giving you a compliment and saying, wow, I'm proud of you. Look at what you've done.

You might feel uncomfortable, but say, thank you.

Jennie Milton (51:10)

Thank you, exactly. And then take the next step and say, I'm proud of myself. I'm freaking proud of myself for doing that. Because that is even more powerful. And as I mentioned before, that's all that really matters. Let other people, let them think what they want. As long as we're proud of ourselves, we are gonna be peaceful and just in our time that we are here.

Rosie (51:13)

Yeah.

Yes!

Mmm.

Right.

I'm glad you said that.

So glad you said that because we shouldn't be relying on that external validation. That's how I end up doing things that aren't aligned. Right?

Jennie Milton (51:44)

And

it's still that, you know, we're still craving approval and that's why, and then we crave approval and then someone gives us approval and we put it down. like, it's not a win-win situation. And so it's really, again, taking this brain surgery experience for me to realize I don't need that external approval anymore. I just need to be proud of myself and know that I made a decision that I'm proud of and I'll stick by that.

Rosie (51:48)

yeah.

I just say about?

I think this ties in really well with the final question I want to ask you. I ask every single guest. So Jen, what does freedom mean to you?

Jennie Milton (52:28)

What a great question to ask. What a great word, freedom. It has the word free in it. And when I think of the word free, I think free like a bird, free like a kite, free like the wind, free like flying. And then Dom, it's like our kingdom, our kingdom to be free, right? So to me, freedom is our kingdom to be free.

Rosie (52:32)

Mmm.

Mmm.

Jennie Milton (52:57)

and we are free to choose. We can make our own decisions that suit us, that it's going to make us proud of ourselves. Freedom is the ability to overcome fear and not have something holding you back. Freedom is something I'm so grateful for and even

Even if, you know, there's some super sad stories on the news of people that look like they've had their freedom taken away from them, they still have the freedom to choose whether to be negative or positive in their mindset. They still have the choice to make some decisions about themselves. And I think that is freedom. It comes back to that real core, the freedom to be grateful for what we do have and not what we don't.

Rosie (53:48)

That's beautiful. I have so many more questions I could ask you, but I think to do that is just going to be overwhelming, right? And I really appreciate, you know, how vulnerable you've been in sharing your experience of finding out you've these brain aneurysms. Like you are still...

going through this and it's affecting your day to day. So thank you for putting that out there and giving us an insight and a better understanding of fear. And maybe we don't need to be afraid of fear.

Jennie Milton (54:31)

This has been just such a great conversation, Rosie. It's unlike any other podcast I've been on. I really feel like we're best friends, sisters chatting, and I've just felt so comfortable chatting with you. I hope you'll have me on again in 12 months time that I can share my journey. And maybe next year I'm gonna tell you.

Rosie (54:39)

Yeah

I would love to.

Heck yeah.

Jennie Milton (54:55)

I'm kite surfing, I'm skiing again. I've made it through to the other side and that is the visualization and manifestation that I'm putting out there. So I hope you have me on again. I hope all the listeners have enjoyed these stories and I hope they reach out. If there's anybody who's having a really hard time or knows somebody who's had brain surgery or somebody who wants to talk about fear, please reach out. I'm super happy to share, to chat.

Rosie (55:00)

Right.

I would love to.

Jennie Milton (55:25)

to have a conversation with you. And you can find me on Instagram, Facebook under Adrenogen. Adrenogen and also, you know, if you've got children, please have a think about getting my book, Gale and the Red Kite of Courage, which is sharing some of these core lessons for kids that are aged about five to 10 years old and getting them learning to expand their field tolerance at a young age.

Rosie (55:54)

Yes. Of course. And one more question. Where can we get our hands on this book?

Jennie Milton (55:54)

So thank you for letting me share that.

You can buy it on Amazon. As I travel a lot, I haven't got a big box of books I'm posting out. And so if you jump on amazon.com.au in Australia or amazon.com in America and you put in my name, Jenny Milton, you will find Gale and the Red Kite of Courage and you can buy it in an ebook, a paper book or a hard copy and leave me a review. Send me a message. Tell me if you'd like it. And I hope

Rosie (56:04)

sweet.

awesome.

Jennie Milton (56:29)

People send me some pictures of their kids running around flying the kites that I'm showing you how to make.

Rosie (56:35)

Yes.

Yes, yes, yes. Go check out the book, people. Go find Jen on social media. I'll put all the links below and start reframing fear as a challenge. I really like that reframe that you've given me because I love challenges. I've never really seen fear as a challenge. So let's frickin go. Let's go. Thanks, Jen. Talk soon.

Jennie Milton (57:00)

Yeah, let's go. Thanks again, Rosie.