75: Talking faith, freedom and hitting rock bottom with Alex Sanfilippo

[00:00:00] Rosie: G'day and welcome to the Pursuit of Freedom podcast. I'm your host, Rosie Burrows, and I'm on a journey to find my freedom so that I can help you do exactly the same. Join me each week as I share the stories of everyday people who've found their own path to freedom. I'm not going to focus on job titles and accolades because I don't care about that stuff, and neither should you.

[00:00:24] I want to uncover what truly makes you tick. Who are you when you step away from society's expectations and follow your heart? I still haven't figured it out yet. Have you? Either way, buckle up, because it's going to be one hell of a ride.

[00:00:46] Welcome back to the Pursuit of Freedom podcast. I'm really excited for today's episode. I got to admit, I'm a little bit starstruck. So if I stumble over my words, that is why. Cause joining us today is, um, he's a serial entrepreneur. He's a podcaster. He's the founder of Podmatch. It's Alex Sanfilippo.

[00:01:05] There's so much for us to cover and I just want to say thank you for making the time to join us today.

[00:01:12] Alex: Yeah. Rosie, thank you so much for having me and thank you for, for Just your support of, of pod match. You've been since the day you showed up, you've just been a gift. So I'm, I'm very thankful to be here and please don't feel or be starstruck at all.

[00:01:23] I'm just, I think we're pretty similar, actually just chatting. I feel like we got some similarities. We're just different sides of the pond. Right. But, um, very similar in many ways. So I'm really honored and excited to be here with you today.

[00:01:33] Rosie: Oh, thank you. And I'll kind of start with how we met this pod match thing.

[00:01:39] I signed up to your platform. I was, I got to say, I was a bit of a skeptic. It's like, yeah, I don't need to pay for this, but I fell in love with it straight away. And I sent you a very, poorly written message through one of your Google Forms, kind of not making any sense, going, Oh, something about maybe we should work together and bless you, you were very polite in writing back and gave me a lot of time.

[00:02:04] And here we are kind of working together. So. For listeners, if you haven't listened, there's a few episodes ago, I should have pulled out the number. I spoke about how I'm doing a bit of a value trade with Podmatch because Alex has just been so open minded to that. I'm a tiny indie podcaster and here he is going, yeah, let's do something.

[00:02:25] Which I think, Alex, makes you very different.

[00:02:29] Alex: Yeah, thank you. Really, what makes, what made me want to do that, though, is the way you reached out. Maybe not the initial email. I don't remember it being, like, weirdly written or anything like that. But it was the video response you gave, and you also had, like, I don't even know how you did it.

[00:02:41] It was you on video, but beside you was, like, your notepad that you were, like, writing on digitally. And, uh, you just, like, really broke down the value that you thought you could add. And I was, I remember showing my wife and business partner, Alicia, I was like, wow, I was like, Rosie's, like, I actually, we've never done anything like this.

[00:02:57] You're still the only person we do this with. And I was like, is there something we can do? I'm like, how do we make this work? And Alicia's like, I don't know, but yeah, if you, if you like her, like, let's do it, right? So let's figure it out. So, um, I really appreciate your just very natural human outreach.

[00:03:10] Like I didn't feel like you were like, now I'm going to sell you some services here, right? Like I didn't get that vibe at all. And I've had plenty of that. I'm sure you have as well. Right. So I just really liked the, the very natural human. Type of outreach, like, Hey, I think I can help. And I was like, I think you can too.

[00:03:25] And maybe we can, maybe we can help too. So I really appreciate it. And it's, it's been really cool so far. We've already done some really fun stuff together.

[00:03:32] Rosie: Yeah. I, yeah, it's honestly, it might sound silly, but it's been a bit life changing. I was terrified to message you, but you made it so easy, but let's talk about, I feel like you're very values driven and the way you do business.

[00:03:49] I don't think I've come across it before. I studied an MBA. Don't recommend it, by the way. Everyone listening. Um, for someone like me who doesn't like rules and, and stuff, an MBA is the wrong thing. At least it was for the one I did. But you know, we're taught a very specific way of doing business and you, you, you, You know, you really need to look at your bottom line and yada, yada, yada.

[00:04:15] I don't think values were brought up once. So how, I mean, how, where did you learn how you do business? We'll dive in more as, as to what I'm talking about, but let's start there. How did you learn how you do business today?

[00:04:32] Alex: It's definitely been, it's been a journey like anybody has, right? Like I, I just started, like you said, 10 years old and like, I can actually pull values from even that point in my life.

[00:04:41] Granted, I didn't do that intentionally. It was just the way that I was responding to how I was being treated. 10 year old kid being treated a certain way by, you know, Golfers wanting to buy their golf balls back. Some of them with their own initials on them. Right. So getting into arguments with adults as a 10 year old kid, you like learn some things and it kind of affects you from a value standpoint, even because I think we're always creating our values, whether we're doing so consciously or unconsciously.

[00:05:04] And so for me, it started off as being, like I said, unconscious, which makes perfect sense for 10 year old. Right. But as I kind of grew up and ended up in, you mentioned like the 15 year corporate career I did. A lot of that kind of shaped. Some of my beliefs, but also some things that clearly just didn't align with from a corporate standpoint.

[00:05:21] And I do want to mention that I did a really good job there. Like some people think I was like this bad apple for 15 years. Like I did really well. I thrived in it. It was bittersweet the day I left that corporate job. But I knew that there were some things I'm like, I'm not like this and that's okay.

[00:05:36] Like I can't be so driven by the number of the money that I forget the person who I'm on the phone with or the product that I'm creating for somebody. And so a lot of it came from that. Even past that, I'd say that like my faith is a huge part of who I am. So I believe in Jesus from the Bible and I don't consider myself a religious person.

[00:05:51] I consider myself a person of faith. I choose to believe in who that is. That's kind of as far as that goes. But I just, I drive a lot of who I am drives from that one. My values came from really like the example I saw set before me there. And so. Um, to, to make a long story short, when I got into my own thing, I was like, man, I want to start off with leading this thing through values versus through profit or through something other than that.

[00:06:15] Right. Whatever the typical is for someone doing a software startup.

[00:06:21] Rosie: I love it so much. Cause I just don't hear it. And you mentioned your faith. I want to touch on this and I think some people are scared to talk about it. I'm going to be totally upfront. I'm not a person of faith, but I am a very curious person, right?

[00:06:35] And I want to understand what faith means to you. You said you don't see faith. You're not, you're a person of faith, but not of religion. And I went, so how is that different? And what does faith mean to you?

[00:06:52] Alex: Yeah. So religion to me is like a set of maybe rules. And I'm not saying it's a terrible thing. Like it can be very like rule driven.

[00:06:59] And I just, in my own journey, I've met a lot of people who've been hurt by religion, but I've never met anyone who's been hurt by someone's faith. Right. Like again, the religion is typically what causes people to be very extreme and uninviting or. Um, even prejudiced against another person's, their, their, Like their religion, right?

[00:07:18] Like we've, we've seen all that happen. And so I'm not sharing anything that's not known, but when it comes down to, again, just faith, like there's, there's not really that, I guess that boundary between people. It's just like, man, we can still like love each other. At least that's been my experience. Maybe that's not everyone's experience.

[00:07:34] So for me, I just like, I knew I didn't want to ever be that person who stuck up and I'm like, Oh, Rosie, you're not a, not a religious person. I don't know if I can talk to you, right? Like, could you imagine me like, I have met people that are like that. And so for me, it's not that I don't want to associate with that, but maybe that is part of it.

[00:07:53] But for me again, like when I opened the Bible, I just, I just knew that I knew that what I was reading was real. And I just like, know that my life has been changed from the person of Jesus. So I choose to choose to believe again, God of the Bible. And that's like who I follow. And for me, I was like, I want to have faith in that.

[00:08:08] And to me, what faith means is believing what you cannot see. And so I can't see it. Can't feel it. But here's the, here's the thing. Like another example, what I have faith in is that my chair is going to hold me up when I sit in it. I'm not testing my seat every time I go to it, right? I'm not pushing on it.

[00:08:22] I also don't worry about my next breath. I don't think many of us think about it. We're not trying to remind ourselves to breathe, but. And we're not like, I hope that next inhale is going to be oxygen, right. That I need, like, we don't really do that. We have faith, whether we realize it or not. And I just chose to make that intentional.

[00:08:37] And if I can go back a few years when I was in my corporate job, I hit a few years where I was really struggling, like really early on. And that's when I really developed this, this sense of faith. And I realized that like, Hey, we're all, we all have to believe in something. And for me, I've noticed at least for myself, the default was kind of fear.

[00:08:55] So responding to everything in life, feeling like I'm not really sure where my direction is, like I didn't have that compass, so I was like, responding out of a place of fear with everything I had going on, and I just, I knew that there had to be something more, so I've just chosen again, to live this way, where I, like, life, love, has just been a great thing for me.

[00:09:14] So it's, it's provided a really good moral compass and really helped me in many ways, and it's the foundation of my life completely.

[00:09:22] Rosie: I love your explanation of what faith is. Cause I listened to that and I go, huh, maybe I am a person of faith. Not in the same way as you, but it's, isn't that fascinating? I think we make many assumptions around what these words mean and I think sometimes forget that it means something different to each person.

[00:09:42] I'd love to hear your thoughts. You've mentioned what faith is. How could that look like for people who perhaps aren't followers of Jesus or that don't believe in God or anything like that? Because listening to you just then. It's faith is more than that. So what, how might it show up in people's lives?

[00:10:06] Alex: Yeah. I think that there's, there's gonna be different depth to all of it. Right. And I'm not like a, a true subject matter expert in this. I'll share the best I can. And I'd actually love to get your opinion as well. But for me, like when I, when I think about this, there's people that have different, Depth, different levels.

[00:10:21] And so some people, they choose to just to have faith that their job they're in is going to provide for them. Yeah. And again, to me, that was like fear driven, but that that's like where their faith is. So they're going to like, always that's this, the individual is always talking about their work, always thinking about it, really stressed about it because that's become that Northern star, that compass, right?

[00:10:38] Like that, that's what they've got. To me, that's just not a lot of depth to it. Right. Some people, their, their faith is in the, the, their family, like that family unit staying really tight, really glued to their faith. And then I've, I've watched people, especially with that one, when the family has some sort of tragedy and something happens like that, their whole world crumbles again.

[00:10:55] It's just like, it's not big enough. And I find that what we believe in, like our faith is often what our identity gets wrapped up in. And so I look at individuals that like, maybe just like, Hey, I don't have any faith at all. I'm like, okay, well, your identity seems really confused. And that's typical. I meet people that I'm like, Oh, you, you're like, You're not sure where you're going, and like, you can kind of almost feel that energy sometimes, right?

[00:11:16] And I'm like, man, that's, that's what you're choosing to believe in, is that I'm quote unquote believing in nothing, but I'm like, you have to, like, if you're gonna breathe, then you have to believe it, unless you're seriously worried about your next breath, like, you probably have some form of faith. So, those are kind of some of my thoughts, but I'd actually love to hear if you have any perspectives on this as well, because I'm always looking to learn on this topic as well, because it's not an area I typically get to articulate.

[00:11:37] Rosie: Faith is an interesting one, and I think I've got some stuff to work through here because I recognize that I sometimes have a bit of a negative reaction towards that, and I don't know where it comes from. I actually don't know, and I haven't explored that, but just sitting here talking to you and listening to your description of faith, I'm like, Hey, that resonates.

[00:12:05] So for the first time I'm going, Hey, okay. I just said to you five minutes ago, I'm not a person of faith, but, um, now I'm questioning that.

[00:12:13] Alex: Are you going to change the podcast to be the pursuit of faith? Is that what's going

[00:12:16] Rosie: to happen

[00:12:16] Alex: here? This is the last episode and the first one starts next week.

[00:12:20] Rosie: It's all your fault, Alex.

[00:12:22] Yeah. Yep. Yep.

[00:12:24] Alex: I do think it's great that we covered this though, because I know we're going to get more into some of this, like values driven. And like, I think it's important to understand my foundation because my values, not that they're like Supreme or ultimate, they're just going to be different than other people.

[00:12:36] So I think it's important to understand this foundational level for anyone talking about, like, I have a value, quote unquote, values based business. Like you need to know what, what's the core of that then? Like what, what's driving it. So I think it's really great that, that you kind of dove into that. And like, as someone, again, person of faith and you're, you're questioning whether you own it or not, right.

[00:12:54] Uh, I think it's really great that you went there. Like I really, as a, I guess I can call myself a veteran podcaster. I've been doing it since 2014. At this point, I've had very few people ever do anything like that. So I just appreciate even the platform to be able to mention it.

[00:13:06] Rosie: Thank you for being so open.

[00:13:08] It was something on my mind leading up to this interview. I'm like, do I dive into it? And I was tossing it over and I'm like, you know what? Just. From listening to your interviews and how you show up in the world, I'm like, it is clearly very important to Alex. Why would I try to silence that or brush over it?

[00:13:28] That just feels wrong. So I'm glad you've kind of created this space where I feel comfortable to bring that up with you and comfortable to say, Hey, I don't know if I have the same beliefs.

[00:13:38] Alex: Yeah. I think, again, it's great that you did that. And a lot of people, they do try to just brush right over it or not want to talk about it.

[00:13:43] So again, as a, as a host speaking to another host, you are doing a phenomenal job here. And I hope everyone listening to this. really understands that, that really the genius and the brilliance that you have, Rosie, you do just an incredible job.

[00:13:55] Rosie: Oh, thank you so much. I'm going to save that little clip and replay it.

[00:13:59] Listen,

[00:14:01] Alex: podcasting is, if you're, if you're hearing this today, and this is one of your first episodes, you've been with Rosie for a while, the pursuit of freedom, listen, it's a labor of love. What Rosie is doing here and at, at the very least reach out and give some encouragement like I just did. Um, I always love doing that through like an Apple Podcast review.

[00:14:16] Like that's like, that's like catnet for podcasters, right? . It really is. Someone heard it and and said something nice to me, so pause it right now. We'll continue this conversation but just go leave that review real fast 'cause it's that make Rosie's day. So anyway, let's continue. ,

[00:14:32] Rosie: I might have to use that clip.

[00:14:34] as my mid role in every episode. Maybe people will listen to you more than me.

[00:14:38] Alex: Maybe. Without leaving reviews, it's tough. Let's see what happens. Use code Alex at the review checkout so that I can know.

[00:14:46] Rosie: I'm not giving you a commission, can I just say? No, let's get, let's get back to you. I'm going to be judgmental for a minute.

[00:14:55] I 19 year old you, and I must say, 18, 19 year old, and to put it bluntly, you sounded like a bit of a douche. That's

[00:15:08] Alex: the exact word I was thinking I was going to use, but you beat me to it. So yes, that's, that was me. I'm glad you agree. Wow. Imagine if I hadn't, I was like, Alex, he was a saint.

[00:15:21] Rosie: You know, on paper, you probably look quite successful and I'm sure you were very proud of where you were.

[00:15:25] You know, you might not agree, but I think you could probably call yourself a real estate mogul. And you've had a few businesses by then and very successful. But you were also very focused on the money and the status and material objects. So what shifted because you are not that douchebag Alex today.

[00:15:45] Alex: Well, thank you for clearing the air. That's great. Uh, yeah, I'd punch 18, 19, 20 year old Alex in the face for sure. As soon as I saw him, which I think all of our future selves would do that. Right. I think right now, as I'm sharing, if Alex said, I was born in 1988. So let's fast forward 10 more years. Uh, if, if that Alex saw me today, he'd probably punched me in the face too.

[00:16:04] Right. Like, or at least be like, Hey, you need a hug. I can tell something along those lines. But yeah, at that point in my life, I just, I graduated from selling used golf balls, believe it or not. That wasn't that business only worked while you're cute, by the way. Like as soon as I hit 12, I'll first saw like a golf ball, their initials on like, Hey, Hey punk, give that back to me now.

[00:16:21] Like, like nah, you hit in the water. Give me 2. Right. So, um, that only lasts so long. And at that point I. It was kind of like the earlier days of the internet, if you will, or at least it becoming like accessible and usable. And I was very fascinated by computers at that young age. And so it just opened up this door for me as a young guy at that point for people much older than me.

[00:16:42] I'll go to like my, my dad's age and stuff like that. Like his friends being like, Hey, do you know anyone who knows computers? And he's always like, yeah, my son, he knows him like really well. So it just kind of opened up the door to all these like little weird opportunities. And for a while I was selling stuff on eBay when that first became a thing, like anything you do is just fun for me.

[00:16:58] So I got into doing some, some real estate stuff and it was more on like the technology side, but ended up being in physical investing as well. But I really remember this one day in particular, I was sitting, In a, um, in like the lobby of a dental office, just for a normal routine checkup is before people played on their phones when you're just sitting there.

[00:17:16] So there's magazines, right? That's what we used to do is I pick up this magazine. It was a Forbes magazine. They had, it was called Forbes 30 under 30. I remember looking at that in, for the first time. Like, I don't know what it was. Something clicked inside me. I'm like, this is going to be me, Forbes 30 under 30.

[00:17:30] That's, that's my new, like ultimate achievement in life, which if I would've thought for it, I'm like, what happens after 30, right? Like, but at that moment, I'm like, this is going to be me. I'm going to crush it. And real estate is going to be my vehicle to make this happen. And I was just like, committed to it.

[00:17:43] I was like, that's going to be it. And I can remember that really, that really shifted some things for me. I went from like, not, I mean, as a kid, like I, I don't know most kid, like teenagers that would say, yeah, I know what my purpose is. Right. But at that point I was like, I found this thing called purpose.

[00:17:57] I think, you know, right. Like I'm going to go for it. And it did create like this very shallow person that I became. And I didn't necessarily mean to, I had a good upbringing. I had a great family and good friends even growing up. But as soon as I started really pursuing money more than anything, I realized I became very quickly a slave to it.

[00:18:16] And being a slave to money, I think can be the most dangerous thing because the people you're around are only money people, any activity you do is only money related, right? And then you, you, man, I don't know. It just breathed this really wrong stuff inside me. I became someone who really wasn't likable.

[00:18:33] And every relationship in my life, even like my, I guess you can call this one. I was like 19 years, my love interest, if you will, like my actual like relationship that way was very shallow. Everything at that point really was. And I didn't like who I was, but I was seeing the results I wanted to get me closer to, again, that goal for certain year 30.

[00:18:51] So I was just going for it. And then one day everything changed. I woke up one day and this was 2006. And so a lot of people might understand what happened. Kind of hit with a. Massive real estate crash. And so I had a software company in real estate, which went from, I mean, I had a few big, to me, it was a big staff at that point.

[00:19:13] And we're doing like high volume work. We were doing virtual tours of homes. So we were like actually like out on the ground, taking pictures, taking video, shipping them out to the MLS, like digitally, all kinds of really like just groundbreaking stuff at that point. And then I had real estate investment as well.

[00:19:28] And, and went from like. Work to literally no work at all, letting everyone go. And like people like, Oh, were we able to sell the company? No, I gave it to one of the people who said, yeah, I'll do this as a hobby. Right. So it went from like just this big thing. And then like the, I can remember the real estate investment.

[00:19:44] I made that point. The option was to move into it. Or to, or to let it just go. Right. And I was like, man, I don't want to like have them. I record it like 20 or 19 or I can't remember what the age, but 19 or 20 years old. I just didn't want that. And so I remember like, I called my dad and I was like, Hey, like how he came from the aerospace industry.

[00:20:04] I was like, how's the aerospace industry. And he's like, it's actually, it's Doing really well in the sectors I work in. I was like, any chance he can get me a job? My guy literally have nothing now. And my dad being the loving daddy is, which he is, I'm just kidding. He's like, no, but I can get you an, I can probably get you a, uh, get you an interview somewhere.

[00:20:20] I was like, all right, cool. I'll take whatever I can get, you know, like hook me up. So I got an interview and I, I'm very thankful for that. Cause I know my last name got me the job that I got. Um, in, in this space, cause it's kind of like a tight niche community. So, you know, you see San Filippo and they're like, Oh, yep, you're hired.

[00:20:35] Right. So, but I bring that up because that's how I got into corporate, but I got into corporate as a part time receiving clerk, which I realized after I got that job, man, I broke down boxes and pick up people's trash. And by the way, it was a good job, but not for what I was just doing two weeks before that.

[00:20:50] If you think about all that that happened, like everything I was just shattered. I was like, man, have I stooped to this level of taking out people's trash again? Not a bad job, but for me with this terrible mindset, that's what really started to change me actually for the better. But I consider that to be the lowest point in my life.

[00:21:07] I was, I was as low as I ever was. Will, and that was it for me. That was like that moment, but I think it was required my life to become who I am today.

[00:21:17] Rosie: Let's go into that more. You said you think it was required in your life. This is a theme I'm becoming obsessed with because so many guests come on and they share these dark moments.

[00:21:27] Like there's this time in their life that stands out as just their rock bottom or whatever you want to call it.

[00:21:39] I've just been asking the question, do we have to reach that rock bottom in order to become our best selves? Do we have to reach that rock bottom to get there? Or can we somehow skip that awful part because it's not fun. What do you think?

[00:21:57] Alex: You know, I want to answer that, but I actually want to, if it's okay to turn that over to you first, because you've, you've heard this story a lot, probably a lot more than I, my podcast is about podcasting.

[00:22:05] We don't get to rock bottom very, very much conversation, right? So I'm actually fascinated by this as well. And the fact is like, you have a rare knowledge now. Hearing multiple people say this, like, what do you, what do you think? Just a first thought, like, is it actually required? Have you seen some people that just never seemed to maybe rough patches, right?

[00:22:25] Everyone has them, but like never seems to go that low. Generally, very, very curious to hear your thought.

[00:22:32] Rosie: I, my gut reaction is, yeah, I think it is required. Because it, it's a tough lesson to learn and it's cruel, but it really puts things in perspective for you. And gives you a kick up the butt. It's like, well, are you gonna stay here?

[00:22:49] Or are you gonna make a change? Whereas if you don't hit rock bottom, it's uncomfortable. You might not be happy. But it's okay, you can keep going. So it's like there's not as much urgency to change. I think for the rare few, they can somehow get the motivation to change. But for most of us, it seems the pain isn't big enough unless we have a really big problem.

[00:23:16] The word I've been using lately is like a lifequake, you know, just totally breaks apart your world. So yeah, I kind of think in general, definitely a generalization. I think hitting that rock bottom moment is a really important part of our transformation.

[00:23:36] Alex: You know, that sucks. Right. Like hearing you say it, it makes sense.

[00:23:40] But like I, I, I never would wish for anyone that I love or care about or even meet, right? Like for them to hit rock bottom, right? And, and for me, again, my faith, I'm not like, God, please, please help Rosie hit that rock bottom right. , like, I've, like, I'm never gonna so pray that or ask that, right? Like, that's awful.

[00:23:57] But you're right. Like no one's challenging the status quo on our own accord. And I think that maybe that's the issue. And yes, there are some people that just have this level of. Discernment, maybe an inner reflection where they realize, Hey, I need to make a shift. Like I need to live more proactively instead of reacting everything.

[00:24:15] I don't know though, but yeah, the lifequake is a good way to say it. Like, I think that that that's something that we need. And. If this is a good time, I'll kind of share that now. I just really want to hear your perspective. So I really appreciate you saying that. That actually really spoke to me. So thank you for me going back to that point.

[00:24:30] It was when I started that job, the first couple of weeks of it were tough because I'd go home, I'd go get the mail and the mail was full of bills, right. And dissolving. A business, multiple, I guess it was multiple things. It was just like, just like sucked every day. Woke up and I was like, okay, what is it going to be today?

[00:24:47] Right. And here's the thing. What I didn't account for sure. The businesses weren't doing well. And I moved into something I never planned on living in. But in addition to that, The face value friends that I had, as soon as they realized the money was out, they were out as well. The relationship was in also ended because it was like, well, I was here for the fancy stuff, right?

[00:25:07] Like, and so it was just, and that's on me. Like, that's who I surrounded myself with. That's who I brought into my life. That's who I allowed to be my inner circle, which, which is, Shame on me at that point. I didn't know any better, right? And so so here I am like truly rock bottom and completely alone and I'll tell you what I think that rock bottom is hard to hit as aggressively if you have the right people in your corner I did not so imagine, you know, you go through all the worst things in your life, and there's nobody there for you Yeah That to me is really like that's a bad rock bottom a good rock bottom is we have people who love you saying I'm gonna Hold your hand through this You're going to go through it, but I'm gonna hold your hand through it.

[00:25:44] Maybe, maybe that's the thing again, we shouldn't wish on people, but maybe that's the people we're supposed to be to help them go through that. Um, I'm just having that little revelation right here. But for me, I was alone and I can remember coming home from work one day and I got the mail, like usual bills, bills, bills, and I was like flipping through it and one thing was a, um, a flyer for a, like young adults, church, like young professionals, like church ministry or whatever.

[00:26:06] And I, I, for some reason, like. It like stood out to me. So I just like looked at it and I was like, I just like put it down. I recognize the address, the address, like was right around the corner from where I was like, I could almost walk there. So I was like, okay, I just kind of left it there. I'm like a very organized person.

[00:26:22] So like, I don't leave stuff sitting on the counter. Right. So it was the only thing there. And I was like, maybe I'll check that out. Nah, I'm not going to do that, but I couldn't move it for somebody. I kept on like looking, I'm like, no, like just going to leave it there. It took me three weeks. And then finally I was like, you know what, I need to throw this away.

[00:26:37] But for some reason I feel like I'm supposed to go to this thing. And so I, I walked in and still like, just in the same phase of life, defeated alone, really unhappy, no purpose. It felt like, like I just. Not free. If I can be honest, like I just was in this place of bondage, like inside of myself. And so I walk in and, uh, I walk in like really heavy and like expecting these people to like judge me really quick.

[00:27:03] I'm like, they're gonna be able to see right through me. No, I'm a total failure, right? They're going to have no friends. I have a terrible job and I'm a failure from a business standpoint. Like, I, I don't know why, like these were the feelings and thoughts going through my head as I walked through. Um, But I did it anyway.

[00:27:16] So I walked in and I remember walking in and like meeting people that were just really nice. And I had my guard up. They didn't, but I had my guard up. Cause I'm like, Oh, they're going to figure it out. You know, it's just, just in a matter of seconds here, I walked in and more importantly, the people there was, it's like, we kind of got into like, I don't know if you've ever been to a church service, but it was kind of a traditional type of church service.

[00:27:36] Um, non denominational was, I guess the flow of it. So there was like music and all that stuff. And so I can just remember for the Like the first time really feeling something inside me. And for all, for all, the only way I can describe it is just like, I felt like that was my encounter with God. And it was the first time I felt like Jesus was just like there and like sharing this always makes me cry.

[00:27:57] So sorry. But, um, I just felt, I felt loved. And, um, you know, this is actually something that was brought up on a former episode of your show, which I want to encourage everyone to go listen to, but it was episode 62, uh, with Tara and she talked about imposter syndrome. But one of the quotes she said in is when you believe your worth is on.

[00:28:16] Unconditional you step into your fullness when you believe your worth is unconditionally step into your fullness and for me in that moment I realized that I had value that I was worth something and I can't describe it because it nothing was taught to me I wasn't listening to anyone talk. It just hit inside.

[00:28:31] And so again, I share my faith earlier That was the moment I really realized I'm like, Hey, there's, there's something more than, than just this face value. There's something more than this earth because I just felt it like it hit me. And so like, and again, it's, it's one of the few things in life that makes me even the slice bit emotional.

[00:28:45] Cause I'm not like, I don't hold back tears, but I just don't feel them a lot. But every time I share this story, it gives me goosebumps and I remember it like it was yesterday. And so I felt this sense of love. And belonging when I had no reason to feel any of that. And the reason I say my rock bottom was needed was because I don't think I would have ever hit that moment if I could Have just coasted through and done well financially even if it wasn't a four certain or 30 I think I would have been fine, right?

[00:29:07] I needed this moment to realize i'm broken I'm not free. And for that first time I had that sense of freedom and love and passion and purpose inside me that I just still just can't describe. And here's the thing I left that night. I started going back. I made friends. None of them ever judged me, which I'm super thankful for.

[00:29:26] But I went back to that same job, but I walked in differently. And I just, again, can't describe it. I walked in with, you know what? This is okay. This is where I am today. I have a job. There's people in this economy right now who are literally starving to death. Or you go back to those years, people were starving to death in the United States, like What?

[00:29:41] Like in that country? And so I was just, I walked in with this thankfulness, this expectation of, you know what, there can be something good from this and that changed everything for me. My life was never the same from that moment forward.

[00:29:54] Rosie: That is so powerful. Like listening to you describe that experience of walking in and this overwhelming feeling of love, belonging, you know, the, the judgment is gone.

[00:30:08] It's just, yeah, that unconditional love. Who doesn't want that? That's, that's, I think that's what we all crave, whether or not we admit it, right? Inside, we're just, we are. Our little childlike selves are in there. Of course we want love. And what I find equally as powerful, you had all the tangible things prior to that, but you didn't have that feeling.

[00:30:36] Of love, belonging, connection. You lost it all. You walked into the right space, surrounded by the right people and were hit with this overwhelming feeling. I don't have the words for it. Like, do you think it was the location, the people, or was it the experience as a whole that gave you that sense of love and belonging?

[00:31:02] Like, I, I don't know. I want to understand it better.

[00:31:05] Alex: I, I wish I hadn't answered this. I, I don't know. Like, I, I don't like, But I don't think it was any of those things because like, I, I grew up playing music. So it was like, like, I didn't walk into anything that wasn't familiar, right? Like I played a lot of sports, like school growing up, like there was all that.

[00:31:21] So like, there was nothing in that environment that was out of the ordinary. Like it was kind of a combination. Sure. But like, so it wasn't that I don't know what it was. Um, other than the fact that I think like when I look at the, the, the Bible, it talks about like seek and you will find, I think I showed up with this attitude of I'm here to seek.

[00:31:37] Like I'm here, I'm looking for something. Yeah. And I'm sure in that moment, I subconsciously just like, God, please help me. Like I'm sure that that came up and I just don't recall that. All I know is it felt like I wasn't the one making the action. And so I don't have a great answer for that. Again, it was just that like encounter is all I can say that just.

[00:31:56] Shifted things. And yeah, I had my life quake moment. I hit that rock bottom and just this is what this is what turned it around. And like, it wasn't like the next day, like rainbows and butterflies, right? Yeah, I went into my work with a different mindset, which I'm thankful for. But I still was in a tough situation for for a bit.

[00:32:13] But my mindset changed again. I think that like the pursuit of freedom, what we're talking about here, like I think that freedom starts internally. Yes. Like we put ourselves in cages in like the worst way. And I was in a cage up till that point. And that was the first time I started walking in freedom.

[00:32:29] And guess what? The bills didn't bother me as much anymore. Sure. They made me uncomfortable. Right. But like I was free regardless of that. And so I decided, you don't want to be proactive. I'm going to build the life that I want to build. And from then on, like, Things, yeah, I've had highs and lows since then, of course, but things have just been different.

[00:32:44] I've walked in this sense of purpose and freedom ever since that day.

[00:32:48] Rosie: I think the fact you can't explain it with a logical, you know, neat little explanation with a bow, I think that's what makes it beautiful. And that's what makes it so powerful. It sounds like you kind of opened your heart, your rock bottom is just like, I need something.

[00:33:04] you know, universe, God, whatever, whatever people want to call it. And I think you received what you needed in that moment. And clearly it's stayed with you throughout your life.

[00:33:16] Alex: Yeah, I think a lot of people, it's, I love that you mentioned it. Like I stuck with it. I think that a lot of people, they have, Something that changes and gets them like no one lives in rock bottom.

[00:33:24] Like at some point you, you leave the value and you go back to a peak, go back to a mountaintop. Right. But I think a lot of people, they forget where they came from or what, what the reasoning was. And we both know the people that are in and out. It feels like they climb a mountain, they go right back down into a valley.

[00:33:39] You're like, what are you doing? Right? Like, this is the same thing you just did. Right. And I think that having the, uh, the awareness and the willingness to say that, Hey. I'm not going back there. Not that you're trying to fight to stay away from it. Right. You're just saying like, Hey, I'm remembering what brought me out of that.

[00:33:56] And I'm sticking with that. I'm glad you brought that up. Cause I think that's, that is key to staying in living a life of freedom of any kind is like remembering where you came from, like not forgetting it and not just letting it go and repeating the cycle, but also remembering like what helped you, what got you there and sticking with that, following that through and making a big part of your life is so important.

[00:34:15] And like, even Podmatch the core values of the company are built on that. Like my personal core values are built on it. Like everything is still built on that same foundation. Cause I want to make sure it stays core to, to what we are, what we do. And so for me personally, I've got that. I want to always remember it and never forget that moment.

[00:34:32] Rosie: Yeah, I think honoring our past, our struggles and our high moments is so important. People talk about moving on, and I actually don't like that phrase. I like to say moving forward because I like to remember the good and the bad. I need to. It's part of who I am. And we learn so much from those experiences.

[00:34:55] But before we get too lost in that, though, rabbit hole, something like the, I could just talk for hours on these deep philosophical topics. I think that's, that's why I love podcasting so much. I get to meet people like you who are like, yeah, Rosie, let's go there. Let's do it. And

[00:35:10] Alex: again, it's one of the reasons I respect what you're, what you've created here.

[00:35:14] Like the knowledge and wisdom that you have is just like unbelievably above the average that people have. It's just, you've heard so many things, which it's for anyone who's listening, they get to hear it too. Right. So that's so cool. Yeah.

[00:35:26] Rosie: No, I appreciate that. I, and just quickly, podcasting has truly changed my life.

[00:35:32] Um, and we might get back to that later cause you've been podcasting a long time. But what I want to touch on is how did you figure out what was next? Like your identity was very different. Young Alex, 18, 19, 20, totally different. You kind of lost it all rock bottom. You went to the church event and You know, I had a very powerful experience.

[00:36:01] But I feel like there's a gap. You've had, there's that powerful experience, which clearly was a catalyst for something. So how did you then rebuild yourself, rebuild your identity and who you were? Because would you agree that so often we tie our identity to what it is we do?

[00:36:23] Alex: Yes, maybe wrongfully so, but yeah, for me, that's what I committed to not doing because I had done that so aggressively before.

[00:36:33] And so I think that the gift that I had was that I knew that that was wrong at that point. And so for me, like not to sound repetitive, I got into the word, I got in the Bible like a lot. So I was reading that and I learned a lot about kind of just who I wanted to be, the way I wanted to lead, the way I wanted to serve.

[00:36:48] And so I just applied it in the only. place I really had at that point. Like I was building new friendships, but I used it in my work a lot. And wild enough, I got promoted pretty quick. Like I went from part time to full time, so taking out people's trash and breaking down boxes even more. Right. But, uh, but people just notice the way that I work.

[00:37:06] So I just decided, you know, I'm going to do my best here. And because I've always had a bit of an entrepreneurial mind. I was in that corporate setting, but I kind of brought what has now been, there's actually like a term for it called a, um, intrapreneur. So an intrapreneur is an entrepreneur inside of an organization.

[00:37:22] So, and so I started saying like, Hey, we're, we're going all around the building. There was a group of us, it was a big building, right. And we're, we're taking out people's trash. I'm like, but some of these trash cans are always empty. And some of the small ones are overflowing every time we go, let's move bigger trash cans, let's put the small ones, but other ones are, you know, Why are we breaking down boxes in multiple parts of the building?

[00:37:37] Let's have one like carts and let's have one central location. So it's safer because there's people with knives everywhere around these. Right. And people notice that they're like, Hey, this guy's got like efficiency and safety on his mind and we're building airplanes, you know, like maybe, yeah, maybe we should like see what he's doing.

[00:37:54] And so, um, these were things I just applied that I felt like I was just. Some of it to me felt so obvious that like, I couldn't even credit it to anything. I'm just like, yeah, this seems to just make perfect sense. And the people are like, I never thought about that before. I'm like, what? Like how? And so, uh, for me, I just, I grew up in that organization.

[00:38:12] Like I grew up doing this stuff and it's a, it was a fairly like Boring job from an outsider perspective. I loved every minute of it, but I wasn't an astronaut. I wasn't a skydiver and I wasn't a fighter pilot for everyone to know really quick. Like, wasn't any of those fun things, but we were building, we were building planes.

[00:38:26] We were building parts. We were shipping them all around the world. It was a fun thing. I really enjoyed watching the company grow. When I got into it, it wasn't huge yet, but over that, that period of time, 15 years, I was working there. I, uh, I really, I really enjoyed it. Like it was just, it was fun. And like, I grew with the company.

[00:38:43] So like, I can remember like starting off at really the little, the very bottom. And not to say there wasn't highs and lows in the company. Right. But after 13 years, I was moved up to the C suite level and we were a publicly traded company. And I was the youngest guy sitting in that room. Uh, everyone had no hair or really white hair.

[00:39:01] Uh, so, and, uh, and then there was, there was little Alex over there hanging out, but it was, uh, I, a lot of kind of who I became, like to kind of fill in that gap. Like it was a 15 year period where I think I really took that time to develop the muscles, to develop the thought processes, to develop like who I needed to really become before I stepped into anything of my own again.

[00:39:20] Like not that I needed like 15 years to heal, but I did get coaching. I did get counseling along the way and it just helped me continuously level up. And it, I think it propelled me into what I'm doing today. And 15 years sounds like a lot to some people, but I always think back to. Football and NFL, I guess, as I know it.

[00:39:36] Um, and I think of like Jerry Rice, he was like the greatest receiver of all time. And no one knew who he was for 18 years, but he was working every day for 18 years before people were like, this guy's good. Right. And it doesn't need to always take that long, but I think we discredit what we do in the dark.

[00:39:51] I don't have any like real recognition from that job that I did. Sure. People remember me. Like I have people that have gone on to lead the company and lead other companies as well in that sphere of aerospace, but I don't have like a huge legacy there, but it's the time I did in the dark that people don't know about that has prepared me for what I do now today.

[00:40:08] Rosie: I want to know more. So you made it to the C suite. It's a publicly traded company now, and I'm sure you played a pivotal role in that. So you quite easily could have ended up on a similar path to younger you. Where am I going with this? I don't know what my question is, but I'm going Yeah, they were different experiences, but they're very much surrounded by lots of money.

[00:40:35] You know, aerospace isn't cheap, you know, I'm sure you had a healthy salary in the C suite and all these things. So what kept you on your path? You know, it sounds like you really were a lot clearer on who you were and what was important to you and the same breath. You left corporate. So what happened?

[00:40:58] Alex: Yeah. Uh, I think at this point when I started leading people, so I started like working my way up, I did really good when it was all Alex. And then the first time I started leading people in the organization was my first like little bit of like, Oh, right. Like I have to do some work here. And that's where I started developing what I think is really different.

[00:41:16] And, and these, it's funny what I'll, what I'll mention here is like literally. The same core values that we now use in, in Podmatch, but there was three main things. And I've been really using them ever since. And again, I pulled a lot of this from, from the Bible. So, uh, if someone's like, Hey, I know what that's from, right?

[00:41:33] Fine. But the first thing I always said is I'm going to be human to human. And any department I lead, we're going to be human to human. What that means to me is we're going to remember, even if we're using email, even if we're using AI tools, no matter what, what it is that we're using, we're going to remember that we're a human that's serving another human.

[00:41:47] And we are going to remind people of that connection, any chance we get, because people like working with people. And when you remember that you're working with a human, you're a lot nicer. Not right. Oh, you're like dumb computer. Like how often have you said that when it won't do something we want. Right.

[00:42:01] And that's okay. But you're like dumb human. Like no one's ever said that. Um, but that was like the first thing I really developed. And right after that was this idea of seeking to serve. And so like, that was very easy. Like when I was running the, the sales and customer service division of the company.

[00:42:16] Right. But inside of it, it was when I was talking to my manufacturing team and my ship and receiving team. Cause the manufacturing team said, no, the super receiving team, they serve us because we're the ones making the parts. And the other part you would say, no, they're serving us. Cause we're shipping apart.

[00:42:31] Right. Like, and it kind of came to this, this, this, this moment where I'm like, Hey, everybody, how about we just all serve each other and do really well by each other and help out when somebody needs it. Right. And so, I, I think. Made a lot of staffing changes. The people that didn't want to think about human beings, right?

[00:42:46] They wanted to just think, Hey, this is my job. It's just an assembly line. There's no people, right? The people that were refusing to serve, they wanted to lead. They didn't want to follow anybody. They wanted to help. They wanted everyone else to work for them. Those are people just didn't last. And I believe that's what, what really propelled me forward was just this humanity and this idea of like, Hey, I'm going to love it.

[00:43:03] I'm going to take care of you. I think just went really well because I can always remember whenever I had like one on ones with my core players, they always said, I feel really safe working with you. And that was like a very common thing. I heard people were like, I feel safe. I feel heard. I feel loved. I feel respected.

[00:43:16] These were things that would come up. I'm not saying that to make it sound like I'm something special, but all I did was say, you know what, like, yeah, this is a huge corporation, but like, let's not forget it takes people to make it work. Right. And let's just do well by people. And so I think that that's really what, Separate me.

[00:43:31] And that's what helped me begin to like, to stand out in the space, working my way up to that C suite level. And I just brought that same mentality into even that level. And it really helped me stand out because we're in meetings, planning, big things, restructuring, everyone's thinking about the systems, the processes, and don't get me wrong.

[00:43:46] I love systems and processes. Like I'm passionate about that, but I was also saying, who is this going to affect negatively or positively? And I was able to think about it from that perspective. I think that that room really liked that. They're like, wow, you really. I didn't think about the people, right. So, and so I think I just always do my best to remember that at that point.

[00:44:04] Yeah.

[00:44:05] Rosie: I love that this is a positive story because often corporate gets a bad rap. Like it's not perfect, but you, you're there 15 years, you made a difference and you got a lot from it. You're not talking to me like. Ugh, you know, corporate's awful, I hated every second of it, couldn't wait to get out. I know that's some people's experience, but I think that perspective is overly hyped and focused on generally in social media.

[00:44:39] And I, I can fall into that trap too. So I, it's refreshing to hear your take. It's a hugely positive experience and has helped shape how you walk through life and how you do business. And I want to touch on how you do business. I refer to it as doing business the Alex way. That's what, that's what I'm calling it because I love it.

[00:45:02] I

[00:45:02] Alex: love that. Yeah. Can we coin that? That's sweet.

[00:45:05] Rosie: Let's get a t shirt. I think this is what spoke to me. Like I joined your platform and I think within a couple of days I had messaged you like, we need to work together. I'm, I just, it was a feeling. I'm like, you're amazing. I need to be in your circle. And the first thing was I could see you of genuine, very values driven.

[00:45:29] For 6 a month. Like that is incredibly successful. That's one thing, but that's, that's not the most outrageous thing you've done. You have a company, you've got thousands of users. Is it 10, 000? Am I making that up?

[00:45:48] Alex: Ooh, I, I always have to, we, we share that directly on the homepage of Podmatch. So if anyone can retype this, cause I'm going there right now, and that's just our active members in the last 45 days.

[00:45:56] So it's 12, 631 active in the last 45 days as we speak right now.

[00:46:01] Rosie: Wow. 12, 641. Right. You're not a small company, but. You've run it very lean. It's you, your wife, and Jesse, who's a friend, right? It's you three. And then I think a couple of like, not full time staff who might do editing or various things as you need it.

[00:46:21] And, you know, when I messaged support, it was Alicia who responded to me. When I messaged you, it was you who responded to me, not a personal assistant. And I'm like, wow, just so accessible. And there you are in the community and here you are guesting on podcasts. Like, I'm so appreciative of that. You're very generous and giving of your time as someone who.

[00:46:45] You know, you're running the company, obviously with, with Jesse and Alicia as well. It's you three, you're busy, but you make time for your customers. Again, not the most outrageous thing. You have been known to kick users off your platform. You're going to lose money doing that. That's against the rules. How can you be successful at business if you're going, I'm going to reduce my monthly recurring revenue?

[00:47:19] Like, okay, let's touch on that. Why did you do it? Why'd you go, nah, we're getting rid of you.

[00:47:25] Alex: Uh, well, okay. Uh, I, I want to sound as nice as I can in this. We just realized, uh, we realized probably in the first two years that some people were joining that just had for lack of a better term, ill intent. They weren't there to, they weren't there to like serve, add value.

[00:47:42] They had something they want to do that was wrong. They weren't really using the platform. There, there's all these different things. And we just got, I can't get the point where I'm like, man, listen. Yes. Everything in SAS software as a service says bigger user bases, like more people using it. Right. The higher the number, the better it is.

[00:47:57] And I was like, man, I don't, I call BS. Like who wants to go to a platform where your interactions suck or no one's going to like talk to you? Or it's just like, you're gonna be mistreated. I'm like, I don't want that. And so we just made this line this and I'm like, anyone has, cause there's internal like report abuse feedback and like watch a lot of data as well.

[00:48:14] And we just started looking at them like, Hey, if anyone falls below this line, let's start audit, like let's warn them first and then let's automatically remove them if they don't, they don't respond, they don't take any action. Right. And so we've made it so it's fair. We give people a shot. I'm not just like, no, Rosie's done.

[00:48:28] You know, like, like never, we have never done that. We always like warn people. And, and sometimes When it's somebody that like I've listened their podcast, I feel like the way they're acting doesn't align with who they show up as on the podcast. Like I've been known to send videos to people and be like, Hey, And that, that by the way, to me is the most uncomfortable thing ever, right?

[00:48:45] I bet. I'm like, Hey, listen, you show up really nice, but I'm told you're a jerk, right? That sucks to do. But I, I've been known to do that. I just did that a couple of weeks ago. And I met the guy in person last night that I just did this with. I sent him a video and I was like, Hey man, I do not appreciate it.

[00:49:00] And he's just like, man, dude, that really spoke to me. He's like the fact that you cared enough to like reach out. And he, he was like, I made some changes. He's like, you were right. And so he's still on pod match and now doing really well. But he's just like, I didn't really, he's like what it was. He forgot he was working with people.

[00:49:16] Right. He thought that everyone was there to help him. And he just kind of forgot that it was just needed to push a reminder. But back to your main point. Yeah, we remove people when we feel like it's not the quality standard that we want. Again, we want people to give him a chance. We don't want them on there because I want it to be people that are like minded, that have this perspective that you want.

[00:49:32] Podcasting serves the world. It makes it a better place. It's a medium that's growing in authority and power, not so that we can each individually. Right. But so that we can go make someone else's life better. And we do our best to keep that the culture of the company. And so we intentionally stay kind of small.

[00:49:49] Um, and, and none of us are overwhelmed. Like I, I think Alicia works like 32 hours a week. I work like 45, which is perfect for me and Jesse. I have no idea. Um, he's on vacation for an entire month. So who knows? Like he's in Costa Rica as we're speaking right now. I

[00:50:03] Rosie: just love it so much. It, it just, for whatever reason, sometimes I imagine these big business people as all being assholes, you know, but I think, you know, it's kind of based on some truth because there are a lot of not so nice leaders out there.

[00:50:20] So it's great to come across a leader who's actually, you've got your customer customer's interests at front of mind. It affects your bottom line, but also it just hugely improves the customer experience, like as a user of Podmatch. And then the first day I was like, Oh, I feel like I'm at home. I feel like a legit podcaster and I'm with my people.

[00:50:45] Like that vibe is immediately, immediately obvious.

[00:50:50] Alex: I'm so thankful to to hear that. And if I can just fill in a gap real quick, if that's okay. I don't mean to cut you off. Yeah, please do. Yeah. Me leaving corporate was to this exact point. Mm. And so, like, I, I, I believe the way you end one seasons, the way you begin the next, so I left my, my last year there was my best year I ever had left on great terms.

[00:51:06] They've invited me back three times to speak at the organization, which is really cool. But I, I left because when I got sold, I realized I could no longer be that entrepreneur. Mm-hmm . I was more like just. I felt like a cog in the system, right? I was just, I was just there and I realized that like, Hey, my time here is going to be up cause I can no longer really flex my creativity.

[00:51:22] So I left, which was a beautiful thing. I allowed other people to, to really get elevated, but I felt like we turned to this thing that was more like. Less people driven, more like metrics, more dashboards, more of that. And like, that's just not the world I wanted to be in. Cause I spent so much time doing the opposite of that.

[00:51:37] Then when I got into that, as much as I love the data and stuff, I was like, this can't be our driver. So again, I just want to fill in that gap here. But when I left, I wanted to build something that people would show up to and feel like it was home, feel like the head of community, how the family, and the fact that you just use that term.

[00:51:51] Tells me that on December, I made the right choice leaving that, that really cushy job

[00:51:59] Rosie: and I loved it. It wasn't a so long suckers moment, you know, when you left that job, because I think some people they do leave their role, you know, the nine to five, when they take the leap to entrepreneurship, not that entrepreneurship was new to you, but it is, it can be quite negative and just get away from me.

[00:52:18] So I like that, I don't know, you, you found a way to thrive in that environment, but also honored that, Hey, this isn't working for me anymore. And you went on to the bigger and better things. So the next outrageous thing I want to talk about doing business the Alex way is Podmatch pays podcast hosts. Now, when I heard this, I went, really?

[00:52:48] Like that just sounds ridiculous. And. I, I Googled it, right? I'm like, okay, who's had experience? And the first result is podmatch a scam. And I went, Oh, here we go. But. I can say with a hundred percent certainty, Podmatch is not a scam. You have created a revenue share model, which I think is so innovative.

[00:53:16] And also, why are you doing that? You're not making as much money as you could. That's what the old, that's what the devil on my shoulder saying, right? Like what? But it's so cool. So can you quickly explain to us, like how did this idea come to you and why did you guys think it was a good idea?

[00:53:39] Alex: Yeah. I was, um, And, and thank you for bringing it up.

[00:53:42] Um, you're right. We could make more money, uh, . But you know what, one of the things, some advice I got from another software founder, who's, I mean, light years away from me, he, he's older than me. He's li he's done so much more. I have. He's like, Hey, man, decide how much money you wanna make. He goes, and then just reinvest the rest and the people that you're serving.

[00:53:58] Wow. He's like, he's kinda like me. And I was like, dang. I was like, that's so freaking good. You know? I heard that. I was like, man, that's what, that's what I'm gonna do. And we hit this point where I'm very thankful. Alicia, Jesse and I is the three owners of the company. We're, we're. hitting a level that we had never reached, like more than ever made in corporate, which I never dreamed of happening.

[00:54:14] I was like, Hey, I think, I think this is good. Like, let's, what can we do for other people? And the reason this idea came up is I realized when I was talking to podcast hosts that were leaving and quitting the first two years, we had an email to go out. When someone was leaving, we'd say, Hey, would you be willing to have a quick conversation with Alex just to tell them why?

[00:54:30] Cause we wanted to figure out what was wrong with it. And There was the occasional people like your software sucks, right? Like that's why I'm leaving. But the mass majority of the time it was, I'm just quitting my podcast. My wife doesn't like the hobby cause it's costing me too much money. And I just kept on hearing that same thing.

[00:54:44] I'm like, well, how much is it costing? And so I started like adding up. People were like, Oh, like 25 a month. I'm like 25 a month. Like, okay, I get that that's money. I'm like, but can we do something about that? And so like, we just pitched it internally and like, we wrote up the system, we call it our pod value initiative and we're just like, can we put money back in the hands of people that are making this industry work?

[00:55:04] Podmatch doesn't exist without podcasters. And I think that we're using Riverside right now to record. Riverside doesn't exist without podcasts. Like, I think that all these companies forget it and they're like, pay me, pay me, pay me, pay me. And it's like, wait a minute. If without them, we don't have anything right.

[00:55:19] Like, and so I just decided, like, can we reinvest? And at the end of the day, like my goal wasn't to make anyone rich, but I was like, can we offset all their production costs so they can pay for pod match? They can pay for Riverside so they can pay for their hosting provider, maybe hire a part time virtual assistant help as well, not because I'm like, we need to keep them right.

[00:55:36] But I'm like, people started podcasting. They had a passion, a purpose, a desire to get their message out into the world. Like. Can we help enable that for longer so they can feel like they can tell their spouse or significant other that, Oh no, I'm net positive. I'm making 30 a month doing this. Yeah, sure.

[00:55:50] It's not a ton, but no one's gonna be like, we'll quit. Right. Like at that point you're not costing the family anything and you're getting what you want out there. So that was the whole idea behind, again, we call it the pod value initiative. And to date, cause I was just on the homepage of pod match. We just surpassed 600, 000 since we launched this program at the end of, so I'm not sure the date, sometime in 2022, uh, we launched it.

[00:56:10] And so for me, like The dream I've had is one day to give a million dollars back to podcasters. I can now see that that's like, that is on the horizon of being a reality.

[00:56:19] Rosie: Yeah. It's only a couple of years into the initiative and 600, 000. And I love that you're not spinning it as, Hey, you can make your full time salary through Podmatch.

[00:56:30] Like that's, that is, that would be scammy.

[00:56:34] Alex: Right? Yeah. You can't do that. And I don't, I don't ever see it going there. I mean, that'd be the coolest thing, but there's just, there's The reality is, it's not that. It's not going to happen. No,

[00:56:43] Rosie: no. And I love that you're upfront about that. And for me, getting my first payout, I was like, this is amazing.

[00:56:51] Like I earned my first dollar through podcasting because of Podmatch and it felt amazing. And is it going to make me rich? No. Is it going to help me cover the cost of subscriptions for things that I use? Yes. And it's, Extremely validating. I think, like, it's not about money at all for me, but that transaction really gave me a boost.

[00:57:17] So I think what you're doing is, it's amazing because it's really, Strengthening the podcasting community. I sometimes feel like I am talking into the void. I got to say like that, it really feels like that sometimes. So to have this community online, have the events and your podcast, like that's amazing.

[00:57:44] As a support for, for me as a podcaster too, I feel so connected. That's all I wanted. I

[00:57:52] Alex: have a family feeling connected, be part of a community again. That's like, that's, that was the dream when I left corporate was to do that in podcasting. And because I was a podcast before that I had the corporate job, but I loved it.

[00:58:02] And I got into, I'm like, this is where I want to go. And so like everything you're saying is literally like that. I mean, this is just made my day because it's like, this is exactly what we set out to do. Not to get rich, not to build some huge software company, like to build this reputation or anything like that.

[00:58:15] Like, sure, that stuff happens and I'm thankful for it, but like, let's go back to the beginning of our conversation, my background, I know that I can't go back there. And that's one, another reason I'm very happy to be supporting podcasters this way. And as we continue to grow, We're going to leverage everything we can to continue to support people at a higher and higher and more effective level, instead of just stuffing our pockets, because I just know what that breeds, at least in me, maybe not everyone's the same, right?

[00:58:39] But like,

[00:58:40] Rosie: I

[00:58:40] Alex: don't think I'd be a great guy to have a billion dollars. I don't know if I'm the guy that someone should give it to. So, uh, this is the way we want to run it. And I think it protects our level of humility and our level of pride, keeping that type of thing in check, but also reminds us, Hey, like, again, human to human.

[00:58:54] Like they have, they have bills too. Let's serve them. Let's do really well. Let's love these individuals and just see how, how far we can all go together with making the world a better place. Cause. That to me is what podcasting does.

[00:59:04] Rosie: I love it. And I know I'm gushing a lot and listeners, please know this is not a sponsored episode.

[00:59:09] I can't stop talking about Podmatch, but one other thing I want to say, cause I've recently put a post on Reddit because I want to push back against this scam thing, right? Big long post. And one of my teeny tiny criticisms was that the threshold to get your payout of your commissions on Podmatch was a hundred dollars.

[00:59:28] I'm like, Oh, I wish it was lower. A week later, there you are posting in the community. Oh, Hey guys, we're lowering it to 25 bucks. And I'm like, yes. So you implement changes all the time. I've even messaged Alicia before with little bugs I've spotted or ideas on what to improve. And What do you know? It's implemented.

[00:59:49] It's just, you're so responsive to feedback and always thinking, okay, how can we improve this? Now I have talked your ear off. So we're going to go to the final question, which is my favorite question on the podcast. I ask everybody. What does freedom mean to you?

[01:00:11] Alex: Freedom to me means really intentionally discovering who you are at the core.

[01:00:16] I've met a lot of people that are really successful in my life. And a lot of people will say, well, success at a certain level, a certain dollar amount, a certain achievement, a certain group of different. Things that you just have in your life are freedom. And what I've realized from meeting these individuals is some of them are the most unhappy, miserable people I've ever met in my life.

[01:00:37] And I don't say it to be rude or mean, and they're not necessarily like voicing out in the world. You can just sense it like, man, this person. They have a yacht, they have an airplane, they have 10 houses. They are so unhappy though. And to me, you're not, if you're free, you're not unhappy. Yes, you have highs and lows, but to me, freedom at its core means that you have this sense of peace.

[01:00:58] Right. And I always think of a butterfly when I think about this, because a butterfly is just like, it's a beautiful creature if you think about it. And one of the things that a butterfly symbolizes is letting go of your burdens. If you ever watched a butterfly, just fly, it doesn't seem to matter. Like what the weather's like.

[01:01:12] It's just graceful. It's just beautiful the way that it continues to move and to glide and to me, that's what freedom is. The ability to truly let go of the burdens and the things that are weighing you down and just being able to breathe and just really enjoy the moment where you are and letting go of the circumstances a little bit and just making it fun.

[01:01:30] To me, that's really everything.

[01:01:33] Rosie: I love that. And I love how you compare it to, to being a butterfly. That's beautiful. An absolute pleasure, and I just want to encourage people to definitely go, um, to podmatch. com forward slash free, all free stuff as the link kind of suggests. Really useful tools there and some reports and just go have a look, it's very interesting.

[01:01:59] And Alex has been on so many podcasts, so just go have a deep dive, he's a very interesting person. He's got his own podcast, podcasting. I've just gone blank. Alex, what's the name of your podcast?

[01:02:14] Alex: Podcasting made simple. Everything. Listen, that was perfect. Thank you. Yeah. Podcasting made simple. Holy dooly.

[01:02:19] Lungatch. com slash free. We'll get you all that though. I wouldn't worry about anything else. That's true.

[01:02:23] Rosie: Just go there, everybody. Again, Alex, thank you so much for your time. This has been a hoot and I know everybody has got so much value from it. So thank you.

[01:02:31] Alex: Thank you. I really enjoy this and thanks everyone for hanging out with us.