73: Overcoming Trauma, Letting Go of Shame, and Finding Freedom Through Forgiveness with Neena Perez

[00:00:00] Rosie: Hello. Hello and welcome to another amazing episode. Be warned. This one covers some heavy topics around trauma. Um, Um, abuse, death, that sort of thing. So if these topics are difficult for you. Please give it a skip or come back to it. When you are in a better frame of mind when you're in a safe space, there's no judgment here. And with that out of the way.

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[00:01:09] Rosie: Welcome back to the Pursuit of Freedom podcast. Joining us today is the amazing Nina Perez.

[00:01:15] Nina's an author. She's a transformational coach and she helps women overcome their challenges to build businesses that truly align with their values. This is exciting because this is what I'm all about. And Nina, you've got a lot of wisdom to share. All the way from mindset to healing and building a profitable business, everything in between.

[00:01:38] And you're here to share it all with us today. And I just want to say thank you so much for joining me.

[00:01:43] Neena: I'm so glad. Thank you for having me. This is awesome.

[00:01:46] Rosie: Yeah, I agree. I'm excited to dive in. I don't really know where it's going to go, but somewhere I always like to start is learning a bit more about my guest story.

[00:01:57] And I know that you've been through some shit, to put it lightly, right? And you didn't start where you are today. So can you talk us through what life was like growing up and some of the challenges that came your way?

[00:02:13] Neena: Oh, okay. We're going there. Okay. You're going way back there. Let me sit up straight here.

[00:02:17] Okay. You know what? I wrote a book about it actually. My, my autobiography came out in 2018. I um, you know, my family didn't speak to me for a good eight months after I wrote it, that was the risk I was taking, growing up was pretty tough. I always just Felt like the black sheep or the unwanted child.

[00:02:34] And um, you know, my mother hates when I tell this story, but it's in the book. My mother was married and my father were married, but not to each other. And so they had an affair and voila, here I am. Her husband couldn't have children. So he knew that I was not his. So it was always like this rejection thing, you know, um, then my mother had gotten um, Um, who I thought was like a father to me cause he was in my life from very young, but he started to, molest me.

[00:03:02] I like six years old or so. So I learned a lot about not trusting. I learned a lot about, Liars. I learned a lot about not being protected. Cause at that time, I told my mother I was being abused and she told me to stop lying. And I remember being a little girl, but remember feeling Oh my gosh, I have no protection.

[00:03:21] You know what I mean? Like it was awful. So that journey took me into a pretty rough journey because then after that, I, after the abuse had stopped or whatever, then I met a young boy. He was 17. I was 13. Quickly fell in love and it was extremely abusive. So I had tried to commit suicide at 13 years old and it didn't succeed.

[00:03:43] Thank God it didn't. And then I got pregnant at 14 and had my first child. my son at 15 years old. So I was in, I was a freshman in high school and had to take care of my kid. And his father well, he tried to kill me. He used to be super abusive and it was pretty bad. Um, And then, you know, one day he put a gun to my head and pulled the trigger.

[00:04:10] And the safety got jammed on the gun. And that's why I'm here today. So I always attribute, cause I have a lot of faith. I believe in God. So I just attribute it to God and protecting me. Onward and forward, I ran away from that relationship, lived in shelters and took care of my kid, went to school, finished high school got married at 21, had another kid, got divorced at 28.

[00:04:32] And that's just, been a road of constant victimization, constant, feeling unwanted, not good enough, that kind of stuff, especially when you have family members who tell you, you're just not good enough. Nobody wants you. That's why you're over here. That's why you're cause I would be at my grandmother's for a year.

[00:04:48] Then our mothers and my grandmother, then my mother's. And so when you do that, you feel neglected. You feel unwanted. You don't, you feel rejected. So there was a lot of overcoming, of course, I had to overcome as an adult because I was always funny enough, a go getter. If I started a job, I quickly rose to rose the ranks of those jobs.

[00:05:09] And I think it was because I felt so. unworthy or unvalidated that the hard work was my validation, and then I'm also a neurodivergent, right? I have some ADHD that was undiagnosed and a little bit of dyslexia. So there's just a lot that happens in a human's life and I'm grateful for it. I'm so grateful because I learned so much.

[00:05:32] Much. And that really got me into being a better parent than my parents were, right? I went back to college as an adult at 32, I think I was. And I graduated with a 4. I got my bachelor's degree and all that great stuff. So all these years of thinking I'm stupid, I can't do it dah, dah, dah, whatever the things were.

[00:05:56] the other part of me knew better. And so I would keep going and keep going, but it was hard, right? When you keep going and don't feel full or don't feel loved, don't feel good enough, then you're just going for the next thing to validate you. And then the next thing to validate you until you just crash.

[00:06:17] And that's what happened. Like I just completely crashed, got autoimmune conditions, got very ill, a lot of stuff, right? So my journey is. A lot. That's why I'm like, Whoa, we're going there. Okay, girl. Let's go there. Cause there's a lot.

[00:06:29] Rosie: There's a lot of warming up here. Yeah. It is a lot. And thank you for sharing that because of course I think sharing your story is, is such an important way of finding your voice.

[00:06:42] And I'd really love to understand a bit more how you got to this place of feeling grateful just as an outsider listening to your story. I'm feeling angry and like, how dare those people did that to you? How did you know? Like the anger and then I can imagine the rejection you felt and just trying to prove yourself.

[00:07:04] You spoke about that. So how on earth did you get to the place you are today saying, I'm so grateful.

[00:07:11] Neena: Oh, a lot of it, my faith has a big part in it. Peace to play a play in this because I was lost for a very long time and angry and bitter. And I was all those things. And I remember the moment I had to start forgiveness for real, not forgiveness.

[00:07:27] Oh yeah, forgive and move on. No, like real forgiveness. And what that means is it doesn't mean you forget and it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt. It just means that person has no more power. And I remember just feeling an impression like God was saying, you need to go and forgive this man who was my molester, which was my stepfather.

[00:07:47] And and he wasn't my stepfather anymore. He had moved on when I was like 10 years old. That's when the molestation everything stopped because he moved out. But I went to go see him in my thirties and I remember telling my brother, cause it's my brother's father, not my father. And I told my brother, I got to go see your father.

[00:08:04] He's Oh, why? What are you going to do to him? Oh, just cause I'm Puerto Rican. Doesn't mean I'm going to hurt the guy. Okay, let me just go see this guy. I literally, and I don't, Think everybody should do this, but it was right for me. I literally put his forehead to my forehead.

[00:08:20] It was forehead to forehead, nose to nose. And I looked at him and I said, I choose right now to forgive you. Although let me tell you. Rosie, my reaction in my gut was to punch him in his face because I hadn't seen him in many years. So that was my flesh reaction. Like I just want to just knock you out.

[00:08:37] But I didn't. And I said to him, you probably don't even remember half of the things you do. He goes, I remember everything I did, he said. And I said well, I'm choosing to forgive you. And he goes and I said, you know why? Because only because God sent me here to forgive you. Cause if it wasn't for God, I would have punched in your face.

[00:08:54] I said, but I'm going to choose to forgive you because you no longer will have power over me. You will no longer have power over me. And I just remember busting out. I just cried and he just wiped my tears. And I hugged him and everything was gone. All the hurt, the anger, everything was gone. I literally left it right there, and he said God will never forgive me. He said, I'm just going to go to hell because I know what I did was wrong. And I said that's up to you. Your relationship with God is on you. I'm free. And that's all I care about. You know what I mean? I said, so you're not free. That's on you. I'm free.

[00:09:32] But you will not lie. You will not have that power over me anymore. The sleepless nights the worrying all the time that, I'm always like overprotective over my kids because somebody's going to hurt them, that kind of stuff. It was just constantly unworthiness and unlove and all of that.

[00:09:46] And the shame of somebody doing that to you. And then you take on the shame as if it's yours, and I told him, I said, and I told them that I said, I give you back the shame. Here you go. It's completely yours. I don't need it. Because you hurt me. I was a child. I refuse to take on your shame.

[00:10:06] I have my own shame stuff that I have a shame about that I already need to leave behind, but your shame belongs to you. And I gave it back to him. And it was just. It was, like almost like I literally took off a mantle of shame and just threw it and left. I have never looked back. I have never regretted it.

[00:10:25] It has been the most phenomenal experience of my life. And not everybody can do that. And I don't expect everybody to do that, but I do ask people to really dig deep to get that forgiveness. Forgiveness is huge and it helps you to move forward because you no longer are tethered to that person who's hurt you.

[00:10:45] Rosie: I want to dive more into forgiveness. It's something I've been exploring a lot lately on the podcast. And your way of framing it, you were getting your power back and I've been beginning to realize forgiveness isn't about the other person, it's for you.

[00:11:02] Neena: A hundred percent. I

[00:11:03] Rosie: don't know where my understanding came from that forgiveness was telling the other person it was okay, but that was my belief and I'm wondering where on earth that come came from.

[00:11:16] Like, how do you think, why do you think there's such a misunderstanding around forgiveness?

[00:11:23] Neena: I think because a lot of people don't talk about it. Maybe more now than they used to, but because there's a lot of shame and stuff that happens when you are having to forgive someone, you don't really want to talk about that, right?

[00:11:36] Like who wants to talk about being molested? Who wants to talk about being beaten like a dog? Who wants to talk about almost being murdered? Nobody wants to talk about that. So therefore forgiveness is this thing that we use to hurt them while we're hurting ourselves. It's like I'm gonna hold you hurt me I'm gonna be angry with you because the anger makes it feel like I'm getting you back Yeah, paying you back, but you're not that person could come That person has moved on.

[00:12:02] He moved on. He had done his own, his own life. He did his own thing, and here I am bundled up with all of this unforgiveness and which hurts your relationships. It hurts the way you move forward in life and business. It hurts how you see yourself. It hurts everything. And yet he was moving on with his life.

[00:12:19] So I think that comes from different. avenues, Rosie. I think it comes from maybe movies. We watch it. I think it comes from society. I think it comes from, you know what? You gotta forgive them. If when somebody hits you or you know somebody like when your kids and you're fighting, he said, he's sorry.

[00:12:36] You gotta forgive them. That type of thing. And I think just all of these ideas that come about. But the truth is, it's forgiveness is a choice, not a feeling. And I think most people think it's a fear. feeling like you're supposed to feel bad or feel like you're supposed to forgive that person or feel free to let it go.

[00:12:53] But that's not how it comes about. Sometimes you literally have to just make a tangible choice to let it go and forgive and not let that person hurt you again. Period. And I think it's just a misconception. I don't know where, where we got all those things. I could just think of all the things in society and movies and, stories and that kind of stuff.

[00:13:13] Yeah.

[00:13:15] Rosie: So very much sounds like. you're almost forgiving yourself in a way because it's for you. What role do you think self forgiveness plays or is all forgiveness forgiving yourself?

[00:13:26] Neena: I think self forgiveness, first of all, I think there's a lot of different areas, right? So I think when I forgave him or when I forgave the man who tried to kill me, my son's father and stuff like that, when I forgave them.

[00:13:38] Yes, it is a point of self forgiveness a little bit, but you actually have to do the work for yourself because I had to forgive myself for being stupid enough to get into that relationship that almost murdered me. I had to forgive myself for allowing myself to hold on to 30 years. Of molestation from when I was a child beating myself up, having depression, anxiety, going to therapist you know what I'm saying?

[00:14:05] I had to forgive myself. Like Mean, you didn't know any better girl. You're all right. You got this. You know what I mean? But I didn't do that for a long time. So I was a little bit mad about that, that I let that happen for so long. So I think that's where the self forgiveness piece comes in because you start to feel a sense of relief like that person literally has no more control over me.

[00:14:27] Like zero.

[00:14:29] And I knew that was possible when I could tell you that I've been molested without breaking down and crying without, being a hot mess without blaming everybody in the world, and I realized I had to forgive that. And I also had to forgive myself, Rosie, because, for me as a woman, you know, I had abortions, and. That hurt me when I was younger and it still continued to hurt me throughout my life. And I had to at one point just sit down and say, okay, this is what it is. Now forgive yourself and let this go. You cannot reverse the time, but women go through a lot of that kind of stuff, right? Whether you had an abortion or maybe you had, gave up a kid for adoption or maybe, something deep seated in deep wounds like that, and for me, that was deep. That was a deep, and I struggled with that. I struggled letting myself go. Like actually saying, okay, here, God. I did it. It's what I did. It happened. So I learned through neurolinguistic programming and all that kind of stuff that things just are, and then we add an emotion to it.

[00:15:33] And that helped me because I'm like, okay, this is what happened. It did, it hurt, but now that is what it is. What am I going to do with that? Move forward. Stay here. I have a choice. I can stay there, you have choices to stay. stuck. You have a choice to stay depressed. You have a choice to stay anxious, but you also have the choice to let it go.

[00:15:56] And you also have the choice to be free a hundred percent. Yeah. Right. So you

[00:16:02] Rosie: have the choice. And that's a big piece. I think you have the choice. You're having to take accountability there for the role you're playing in it because right where We're so good at self sabotage and holding ourselves back.

[00:16:17] Not that we mean to do it, but we're just masters at it. And so it's quite confronting to go, Oh, actually I have a role to play here. And I am choosing to let this, or, to this event that has happened in the past, I'm choosing to carry that weight.

[00:16:36] Not, what am I trying to say? You're not, going through the healing process. But I also wonder,

[00:16:44] do you think the support of going to therapists helped you heal? Because it sounds like you were going to therapy for a while.

[00:16:53] Neena: Yeah. I went on and off to therapy for a couple of years. Yeah. That's a very good question. I think some therapists are better than others and I also feel like the therapist that wants you to heal is the best one, not the therapist that keeps you in the same place.

[00:17:10] I was very fortunate because one of the therapists that I had did not think I needed medication. She thought I needed a reframing of thinking. So she must have been like in ahead of her time with NLP and hypnosis and all that because she hypnotized me a little bit, you know, like taking me through a, a series of transes about meeting my younger self and all that kind of stuff.

[00:17:31] So the belief system, the toxic shame, the, all that. So I was very fortunate. But when a psychiatrist, psychologist, and I have friends. I have friends who are psychiatrists and psychologists. Their job is just to keep you on medication and coming back. That's the way the system is built, unfortunately, it's unfortunate, right?

[00:17:50] So that's a, so that's a dual question. I don't know. I think a little bit it did, but a lot of it was my own self development. My, a lot of it was reading the books for me being in prayer, having conversations, being quite honest and frank about how I feel and what I'm doing and also setting boundaries was huge for me.

[00:18:08] Yeah. No, I'm not going to do that. What do you mean? I'm not going to keep putting myself in positions that I don't want to do. And people didn't like it at first, because when you said boundaries, people don't like that, but I protected myself. I protected my energy. I protected my mindset and now people don't play those games with me anymore.

[00:18:27] They know, if Nina said, no, that she's a, no, that's it. Like, all right, let's move on because I've realized that, I have to change my self talk. My belief system. I had to change and honor how I feel because your body keeps the score. And there's a great book called the body keeps the score.

[00:18:45] And it really does keep the score. You'll know when you're uncomfortable, how many times as a woman, right? Maybe we're Walking somewhere, it's dark and like something doesn't feel right, or maybe your friends want to go to this event or party or club or whatever. And you're like something's off, right?

[00:19:03] It's your intuition. It's your feeling. It's something right. And so we got to listen to those kinds of things. Your body will tell you this is doesn't feel right. This is not good. I don't like the way this person is making me feel, this is uncomfortable and honor that, honor it. Because at the end of the day, you have to be with you.

[00:19:23] And if somebody's making you uncomfortable I, I usually I, I'm very good at letting people know that now, where I'll put my hand up and be like, I'm sorry, I'm very uncomfortable. We're not going to continue this conversation. I've had to honor myself that way because who will if I don't, right?

[00:19:41] Rosie: Yeah. Who will if I don't? This is so true, but it's so hard. Did, so you're, would you say you're self taught in this? Yes you read the books and various things, and a therapist who was, helpful in some ways. But would you say you're self taught in this?

[00:20:00] Neena: I think some self taught and some is a lot of the research I've done.

[00:20:04] And plus I have my Master Certification in Neurolinguistic Programming and Positive Intelligence and life coaching and all that. So I've done all the certifications and all that kind of stuff. And I think even though I thought a lot of his baloney, you know what I'm saying? I don't think we need to go to to get those certifications.

[00:20:20] I found that out after spending thousands of dollars, but then you realize you knew that all along. And I think that sometimes you'll get little tools that'll help you solidify what it is you already knew. And so I think that's what it is. Life is your best coach. Life is your best life coach.

[00:20:38] It will do everything to teach you if you want to learn. Now the tool here or the gist is to become the best student. Life is your best life coach, it will teach you things if you're going to pay attention So pay attention, you know if something's hard, yes, it's hard. But what can you get out of it?

[00:20:59] What is it that it's supposed to show you, I remember having a client once She came to me, she was stuck in her emotions for a very long time because her child died. Her teenage child died and it was so hard and that was such a hard conversation to have. And she had, her daughter had died, I think it was like five years prior to when she came to see me.

[00:21:20] And I don't really, I'm not really, I'm not a therapist. I don't want to be a therapist. It's not what I do, but I let her have her space. And she was, you Talking about the tragedy of what happened was a car accident, blah, blah, blah. And she was going through the whole thing. And I said, what good can come out of this?

[00:21:34] She goes, excuse me. She cursed me out. She was so pissed off. Like, why did you say she was angry? And I'm like, I just want to know what good. Can come out of this and she was so pissed and she like hung up the you hung up the zoom and she was Out of there. She was pissed off and it's okay She has the right to do that and she has the right to be pissed off and I took zero offense zero But the blessing a week later, she books another call with me.

[00:22:03] I'm like, oh, you don't first me I got you know, so there you go. I'm like buckle up mean here it comes and she's like, Nina, I'm like, yeah, she goes, I was so angry with you for two days and I'm like, okay. She said, until the question kept resounding in my spirit, what good can come out of this? And she said, and then I realized I kept my daughter in the accident and never.

[00:22:31] Prior all the beautiful years of life we had together and what I can do with her life after. And I'm like, okay, it was so beautiful. So she ended up doing a nonprofit where she's teaching children about drunk driving and all kinds of stuff. She goes to schools and she talks about losing her child or what, but you see what I mean? like every hard thing. And I know losing a child has to be the hardest of the hardest, really. And even in that, you can find something, right? Some lesson, something that can bring you forward, that gun to my head, for instance. You know, Like when I thought about that for a long time, I was terrified of guns, of weapons, anything.

[00:23:20] Like I was terrified. I can imagine. Yeah. And so one day I got sick and tired of being sick and tired. And so I looked at my husband, who is a ex military, and I said to my husband I want to go to the shooting range. And he's excuse me, I'm like, I want to go, I want to go to the shooting range.

[00:23:37] He goes, are you serious? Are you sure? I'm like, I'm sure. And it's, I had to get over my fears. I had to say, okay, Nina, now you're afraid of a gun. That's not even in your vicinity.

[00:23:47] So obviously it's not the gun you're afraid of. It's the thought of the gun that you're afraid of.

[00:23:53] I said, so are we going to start reframing our thinking? And that's what I did. So what happened was I um, I started reframing my thinking and saying, you know, what? The weapon itself, the gun itself had nothing to do with it. And everybody has a different feeling about that topic.

[00:24:09] But this was my fear, right? So I'm talking about personally and I got over it. I just started going shooting every week. I literally put myself in a situation where I had to start thinking differently. So that I no longer had the fear and I believe in life, we should do things afraid, because your brain is always, they're going to protect, it's always going to protect you of something new.

[00:24:32] Back in the day it was, tigers and bears and all that kind of stuff. And nowadays it's a social media or judgment or, whatever it is. So I just believe that we got to, learn from life because we only have one and it's fleeing. It goes so quickly. It's like a vapor in the wind.

[00:24:52] Rosie: That's so true. And this question of what good can come from this. That is confronting like, I, I've lost both my parents, relatively young. I was 21 when dad died and 27 when mum died. And if someone asked me that question, you know, I don't know, five years ago, I probably would have reacted with a lot of anger as well.

[00:25:18] Like, F you, excuse me because it almost feels like the person asking that question is. Invalidating or dismissing the pain I've been through, but that's not what it's about. You can still acknowledge and accept the fact that this awful thing has happened, but also move forward going what have I learned and how can I improve my life?

[00:25:46] Like for me, I learned the very difficult lesson twice. You can't control when you die. So if there's something you want to do.

[00:25:59] Why not try right? That's how I've ended up living in the van I got the bravery to do this and I'm so happy and I don't know if I would have been here if I hadn't been Through the experience of losing my parents.

[00:26:13] Neena: Yeah,

[00:26:14] and the beautifulness of them being in your life to begin with. Exactly. I think we missed the blessing.

[00:26:20] We missed the point, you know, that you had parents that you loved and loved you. And that alone is the blessing. And I think we just, we missed the point. I was thinking this morning as I'm taking a hot shower, I'm thinking, I'm so grateful for this hot shower right now. I'm so grateful because I've been homeless.

[00:26:42] I've lived in shelters. I'm so grateful that I'm in my own home having a shower. And I've also, served, I went to Haiti and served in a rural area that had no running water at all. And I'm like, they wake up every day with no running water, no water to drink, no water to use the bathroom, nothing.

[00:27:02] And I am complaining about what, and it's no, I got to live my life in a place of gratitude. And yes, time is tough and then life gets hard and all those things. But when it does, I always go, Ooh, but Nina. You wrote a book about it, right? Yeah. It's like you wrote a book about it and somebody else has been touched.

[00:27:25] My book was in, different book clubs. My book has been in libraries. My book has been, viewed by so many people who have told me that they set them free, so all of our hardships are for the benefit of someone else. So when you learn from your life now. You become the vessel to help the next fellow person.

[00:27:51] Everything you go to is not wasted. It's never wasted. Right. And so the hardships, the ugliness the poverty, the whatever, whatever, I've even I, when I used to work for this nonprofit, there was this woman who came who was from North Korea and she escaped with her mother. And when she escaped with her mother, she was only like, I think she was seven and they sex trafficked her and her mother for years.

[00:28:23] Okay. And then her mother finally ended up dying because of it. She survived and escaped right. As a child at the time, she was maybe 12 or 13 or 14, something like that and escaped. And now she impacts the entire world with her story, with her book, with her mission to free North Korea. You know what I mean?

[00:28:43] And I say all that to say that it wasn't, it was painful. It was hard, but it's not wasted.

[00:28:49] Rosie: It's

[00:28:49] Neena: not wasted,

[00:28:51] you know?

[00:28:51] Rosie: and I think When we embrace that, I think we're controlling our narrative and our story. We're not letting, it doesn't belong to someone else, our abusers or whatever else has happened, the awful things, which is different for everybody.

[00:29:07] We're the one writing our narrative. So it's like, okay, what am I going to do after that experience? I'm not going to be tethered, that was a word you used earlier, which I love, it's true, you're not going to be tethered to that. It holds you back. There's this weight. Why give that event or that person that amount of power?

[00:29:27] Neena: Exactly. It's like a remote control to your life, Rosie. It's like, you know, they, they, you know, remote control doesn't have to be attached to you, right? They can be miles away and still control you. And that's what it is when you allow that to still sit in your life. It's like they have a remote control.

[00:29:45] Every time you go to make a decision and you remember that hurt or pain, they control you left, forward, backwards, they're controlling you. So they're holding the remote control to your life. And so you're thinking, Oh, I got, this is my life. What? No, it's not. Because if your life isn't living free in who you are and what you want to do because of this person who did that, or that person who betrayed you or whatever, then no, you're not free.

[00:30:11] You think you are, but you're not because the minute that you're faced with it, decisions have to be made and you don't want to make them because of. This happened to me when I was six, so at some point you have to take the batteries out the damn remote control and start controlling your own life.

[00:30:29] Rosie: I love that analogy. And how would you say you, how do you honor your experiences, but still move forward in life?

[00:30:39] Neena: Hmm. I do not. Stay back there. I vacation there if I have to for a second to see what it is that happened in my life I look at it and I assess it. So I do a lot of I call it the third party so it would be like me and my abuser But I am the third party like on top like a timeline And I look at the whole situation from a third eye view and i'm like, okay, this happened I remember when he did that perfect.

[00:31:04] Okay got that was hard for me blah blah blah blah Blah Okay, now I'm going to take that and start teaching someone else. Maybe you need to look for these signs. If your child is doing this, or maybe you need to, if you're like feeling this tension in your heart or chest, or you're clamping up when somebody's near you, that is a sign that your body's saying fear, fear, something's happening to me.

[00:31:25] So I start helping people like kind of identify different things in their life. But what I don't do ever is stay there. Okay. I don't stay in that mindset anymore. Now I am the observer, not the victim. So there's a difference between having trauma and being traumatized. There's a victim.

[00:31:44] There's a difference, right? There's trauma that happened. We all have trauma. Everybody has trauma. But if you stay traumatized, that's a problem so we can all say I've had trauma, but if you're still living in that state of trauma you need to see someone or you need to maybe find someone who's maybe been through it who can help you navigate that, you know, it doesn't have to be a therapist.

[00:32:08] It could be a coach. It could be a mentor. It could be somebody who's gone through it who says you don't have to stay there because that's what we need is we need community. We need people around us that care enough about us to say, are you okay? Yeah. That's important. We shouldn't be doing this alone.

[00:32:24] I think loneliness is a devil's playground in my mind. I think when you're alone or you think you're isolated to the point where you don't speak to anybody or don't have conversation or aren't looking for anybody and you're just really isolated, I think it's the devil's playground. I think that's where, you know, he comes to play around and make sure that he messes with your mind and your spirit and your soul and your mindset and your everything.

[00:32:47] And so I don't give him. When I say him, all the negativity, the devil's playground, whatever. I don't give those things space and I definitely don't give them air time. You don't have, I don't have enough air in my life to give you extra air in my life. Like I don't need that.

[00:33:06] I need, Gratitude, positivity, love, kindness, that kind of stuff. And I know when I'm not in that place and you have to be careful. I call it your ear gates and eye gates, right? So these are like gates into our hearts and mind and soul. And if you're surrounding yourself with negativity or you're watching too much negativity, Or you're, like hearing too much or seeing too much negativity, you will become toxic.

[00:33:32] You will. It just, it's true. There was a, an experiment that was done with they called it the rotten apple effect or something. And what they did is they took a bunch of people and they gave them like a whole bunch of positive things and they were like all happy and they're having a good time.

[00:33:45] And they put one person in there as an experiment to be negative. And the whole room within moments was completely toxic. Everybody was toxic. And I was like, wow. And these are adults, not children. These were adults. It's crazy. But it's just to show you like that saying, what is it? The one bad apple spoils the bunch.

[00:34:07] Rosie: It's the truth. Yeah. Negativity holds a lot of power in a way. So if you're choosing to surround yourself with that, I don't think anything good can come from it. But tell me more about the work that you do now. So you went on your own healing journey. Yeah.

[00:34:23] But now it sounds like you're helping others on their healing journeys. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:29] Neena: Really, the women that come to me are wanting to start businesses that align with their values, but they don't always know what that means or what that is for them. Yeah. Like they know they want to do something to help the world, but they don't know exactly how.

[00:34:43] So what I do is I we start with something called the foundations and it's a long spreadsheet sheet. Long spreadsheet, and it goes through all of your skills, your wisdom, your talents, your God given stuff, your spirit, all of that. We go and break all of that down and we start to align who you are to what you know.

[00:35:03] And then we build out literally your coaching business from concept to launch. And in the process of building out your business, that's when you hit the walls. I'm not good enough. I can't do this. I'm not good enough. You know what I'm saying? That's when the self talk comes, the self sabotage comes, all, that's why I'm there because I know that's coming.

[00:35:22] I can help you build a business in 90 days. That's not a problem. I have a whole team that does all your marketing, automation, funnel building. I have all of that. And I have the whole part of my, the other branch of my team that is the VAs, right? They do all of your social media work, all of that. But what happens when you hit the wall?

[00:35:39] You know what I mean? That's Nina. That's where Nina comes in because I'm not gonna, I'm not going to allow you to self sabotage and ruin yourself. So we really get into love and truth, your core values where you are now, where you want to be. I don't stay with like therapy stuff. Like I don't go all the way back.

[00:35:57] Tell me about your child. We don't really do that. But we do talk about where you're going, where you are right now and where you're going forward. Because if you were born today, Rosie, if you were born right now onto the earth, you just plopped into the earth and you were born today. it would be limitless.

[00:36:14] You would be limitless because there'd be nothing holding you back. You wouldn't know it wouldn't be anything prior. So where do you go here forward? Everything is a possibility, right? And that's what I think coaching is. Coaching is here to possibility. Therapy is here to back and staying back there somewhere.

[00:36:35] I ain't nobody got time for that. Nobody got time. Yeah,

[00:36:40] Rosie: exactly. So how did you end up in this entrepreneurial space? I feel like there's a bit of a gap here that I don't know yet. Because you've been through all this trauma. You've been on this amazing healing journey. And then you've niched down to business.

[00:36:58] Yes. But obviously there's a huge personal development aspect to business, so it makes sense. But how did the business element come in?

[00:37:06] Neena: Oh yeah. The business element came in because when I first started getting into coaching in 2002, I got into spiritual leadership and I started leading a bunch of women.

[00:37:14] It was phenomenal and it was great to see them change. I went back to school in my thirties. I think I told you that to get my bachelor's degree and became a chef, right? And so I grew in corporate, became a director of culinary operations, blah, blah, blah. But I've always been leading. People always been leading people and always helping them with their self development.

[00:37:32] The business piece came in because I kept being left behind by my coaches. So I would pay thousands, and just never get what they promised. And I would do all of this stuff and it would be like one person would give me this piece and one person would give me this piece and one person would give me this piece.

[00:37:52] But most of the time I felt alone in this journey. And I'm like, this is. Bullshit, you know what I'm saying? This is bullshit. I don't know what this is, but I don't like this, because I've always been a servant leader. I've always been somebody who gets into the trenches, even with my teams, always get into the trenches and do the work with them.

[00:38:10] And they always followed me no matter where I went, because I served and I led. And that is the same concept I take into my coaching business because the women that I speak to, because I guess, cause I'm in this world, I speak to a lot of coaches or a lot of women who want to be coaches and they just don't know where to start and they're hoodwinked all the time.

[00:38:32] And there's so much garbage out there. And I'm like, okay, I need to build my business. because somebody didn't build a machine. So I'm going to have to build a machine, so that's when my three part framework came in, which is the inner healing piece that we go through. And I have a whole online Academy with videos and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:38:50] And then I, the transcending piece, which is finding your core values and knowing who, where you want to be, where you come from and where you want to go. And then there's the, I call it co creation and it's me, that person in God, their spirit, their universe. We're just working together. To create the life and business.

[00:39:06] They really want to create. And it's been beautiful and successful. And the women stay with me for a year because they know they're going to hit a wall. And I know they're going to hit a wall and I'm not going to leave them alone while they do that. Not like I was left alone. That's how that business piece came into play.

[00:39:25] Rosie: You know what I love about this is not once did you mention a business plan or a budget or a hitting six figures, which is, there's so much of that out there. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm with you, if you don't get this other shit you're not going to have a business. Like, no, no,

[00:39:43] Neena: And also I don't like the false promises.

[00:39:46] That's bullshit. It is such bullshit. I've paid. It was 25, 000 or 30, 000 in a coach to get the six figures that I ended up getting on my own afterwards. What am I, what are we doing? And so I'm not, I never make any income claims. I will not do it. Now my, the women who have been in my program are making money.

[00:40:07] Great, but I don't need to point that out. What I need you to do is to be aligned with who you want to be and to be aligned with the business you want to have. I don't give a crap how much, that's great. You want to make good money. I have the frameworks for it. That's not the goal. That's not the goal. Not for me anyway.

[00:40:26] And for the women who come to me, I let them know that off the rip. If you're coming to me because you want a six, seven, eight figure business, I can give you to my team to build that whole font funnel and automation piece, but then you don't need me. Okay. Now you need me. If you want to align, if you want to show up for you.

[00:40:44] Then you need me, right? So the women who are with me never leave me Rosie. They never leave. I'm always like, okay So you're years up I've had women with me like three four years. I'm like, okay But they don't want to because I'm a sounding board And a lot of coaches don't offer you that, they'll be with you.

[00:41:02] And as soon as your contract's over, they act like they never saw you, that is not cool. That's not cool. And I was like, I was just about to invest in this coach. She was like 50 grand or something. And I'm like, okay, maybe I'll, let me look into that. I just so happen to speak to someone like you, Rosie, on my podcast, and she happened to be.

[00:41:22] in that program or finishing up that program. And I'm like, Oh, that's awesome. I said, how was it? She's I'm like, Oh, no, don't tell me that. She goes, can I join your program? I'm like, wow. I feel so bad. Like, why would you make all those promises then? Cause I was about to sign up for that same program because of the amount of promises that were made.

[00:41:45] And she said a quarter of that was given. That's not cool, Rosie. No. That's not cool. Like you can't be that kind of human. No.

[00:41:55] Rosie: It says a lot about your values and the kind of person you are. And I want to know. Integrity is

[00:42:00] Neena: huge.

[00:42:01] Yeah. Same for me. Yeah. Oh, I can tell. Just by our first conversation. I'm like, Oh, I like Rosie.

[00:42:08] Oh my gosh

[00:42:09] Rosie: so why is alignment so important to you? I think because I've been

[00:42:15] Neena: so unaligned for so long. I have been pushing this big boulder up a hill that I never had to do. And it was because of all of the things thrown at me, right? Like you're not good enough. You're not worthy. You don't know what you want.

[00:42:28] You're not good. All that kind of stuff just. It throws you off alignment and so alignment is super important for me because I want to wake up every day wanting to do what I freaking do. I don't want to wake up because somebody made me because I have to. I want to wake up because I get to. And because I'm not promised tomorrow, Rosie, I can die tonight.

[00:42:49] So I want to get up loving what I'm doing today. Yeah. I, and if tomorrow comes awesome, I get another chance to get up to do what I want to do. And so when my mom, I'm off alignment and I'm not feeling right and I'm like, hold on, hold up. My life is short. We can't do that. I've already spent 52 years trying to figure this out.

[00:43:08] I'm not going to spend the next 52 years trying to figure out how to figure out what I didn't figure out. No, I ain't got nobody got time. Ain't nobody got time. Exactly. Right. Rosie. It sounds awful. If you didn't do what you did right. When you just got up and you did what you wanted to do and you're living in your van and you got, and you're living your own life the way you freaking want.

[00:43:29] And this says something about you, right? And it talks about grit and determination and clarity. And when you don't feel like do it anymore, so you won't. Exactly. And the whole point is. Is you get to make that call.

[00:43:41] Rosie: Yes, why do we think when we make a decision it's forever?

[00:43:46] Neena: What is forever anyway? That's the stupid thing. Why do we think that? That's so stupid. Nothing is forever. Like nothing. Nothing. Like nothing. Like nothing. That's true. Except taxes it seems. Taxes seem like they're forever.

[00:43:59] Rosie: So what do you say to people, because I talk, I meet a lot of people and they go, I wish I could do what you're doing, I just can't.

[00:44:06] I can't do that. It's not realistic.

[00:44:08] Neena: And they're right. They're right. They can't.

[00:44:11] And why not? Period. Because when you tell yourself you can't. Period. Period. Because if you say to yourself, I wish I could do what you do. How did you do that? Exactly. Rosie. And Rosie goes, Oh, ABCD. I think I can start implementing ABCD one step at a time actually, right?

[00:44:30] Because the truth of the matter is you're the only stopper of you. You are literally the only stopper of you, right? So I think the only time is if you actually say to yourself, okay, can I do a Rosie? Can actually, I'm I don't know, maybe a quadriplegic or disabled or whatever. And it's a little difficult for me to, then I understand that, but if you have, A mind, if you have a spirit, if you have a body, if you have a way you can do it, then you absolutely can.

[00:44:57] But I always tell people like when they come to me like, Oh, I can't. Oh yeah, you're right. You're like, what? Yeah. How dare you? I'm like. I'm just agreeing with you. Isn't that what you want? No, I don't want you to agree with me. I'm like, okay. So then you can I don't know if I can, then you can't.

[00:45:11] Literally, that's what it is. So that's why, like I said to you earlier about the fear thing, right? If you say to yourself, I can't I used to actually have I couldn't speak. Like I was shaking. Like I can't be don't talk to me about guns or whatever. And I have friends who were police officers that I just couldn't do it.

[00:45:27] And it wasn't until I was like, It's not even near you and you're freaking out. So obviously it's not the thing. It's the thought of the thing. Yeah. That's how I got over my fear of like bugs and spiders. And I got my fear over that because I used to be really afraid, but that's the thing though.

[00:45:43] One fear begets another fear. And before you know it, you're just living in this bubble. I have a sister who wouldn't drive for a long, like she just stopped driving places. And I'm like, What do you mean you stopped driving? She goes, I'm just afraid. I'm just, I just, I don't know why.

[00:45:59] I just started getting afraid. I'm like, About why? There was like no rational reason. It just, she just was, and I'm like, Oh, so you'll just never go anywhere. So if your daughter is, God forbid dying in a different state, I guess she's just going to have to die without you. No, I'll get there. I was like, how?

[00:46:17] Ah, so it's the thought. You know what I mean? It's just a thought and we have to challenge those thoughts when a thought comes up that is irrational or something that you didn't have before or something that's been holding you back. Challenge that bad boy. Who do you think you is?

[00:46:34] What are you doing over here?

[00:46:35] Don't just allow your subconscious mind to drive it, drive the car. Get, start thinking about what you're thinking about.

[00:46:42] Rosie: Yes. Yeah. And just because we have a thought doesn't make it true.

[00:46:47] Neena: Exactly. Lord knows

[00:46:48] that's true.

[00:46:49] Rosie: Yep. So let's go back to alignment. When did you start figuring out that you were out living out of alignment or did you just always know?

[00:46:59] Neena: No, I didn't always know, but I always knew life was hard, really hard. I was always struggling. And let me tell you, I still go through points in my life where I'm still out of alignment, where I feel like this is really hard. This shouldn't be this shouldn't be this hard. I and when I start to think like that, then I go, okay, let's start writing things down.

[00:47:20] Where are we in? Not in alignment here because something's off, and so it was a process. I don't think it was a moment or a thing. It was just a process. And I think a lot of it is a lot of stuff that we've talked about, like the forgiveness and shame and all of that stuff that keeps hindering your greatness and your beauty and your thoughts and your creativity, your boldness, all of that stuff that we can really do.

[00:47:46] Like when we were kids, kids don't think about stuff they just do, you know, and then they get hurt and now they're afraid, and that's what happens. We get hurt by people. We get hurt by words, we get hurt by circumstances, we get hurt by our choices, and so then we trust ourselves less and less.

[00:48:05] Rosie: That's true. Yeah. Could you offer some advice to those of us who are feeling a bit stuck? We know something's not quite right, but we're just We can't put our finger on it. Are there some questions or something we can ask ourselves?

[00:48:23] Neena: The first thing I would tell you to do is to stop telling yourself you're stuck.

[00:48:26] Oh, okay. Yep. That's the first step because your brain your subconscious. Mind will automatically say, okay, so that's what we are. We're stuck. It doesn't your, remember your subconscious brain doesn't have a it doesn't have a personality or personality. It doesn't have sarcasm. It just is right.

[00:48:43] Your subconscious brain is your programming. It's from your birth to seven years old, you were programmed. It is what it is. It's stuck there, right? So it's, it is what it is. So when you say I'm stuck, Immediately, you are, you're right, right? So when you say you're stuck, say, huh, I feel like I am in this place right now that I don't like.

[00:49:06] I don't like this feeling I'm having. So let's write these feelings down. So I write them down, feeling stuck, like you just said, feeling stuck. I'm feeling frustrated. I'm feeling bup, And then I write down why. So I'm feeling stuck because I'm feeling frustrated because now when I look at this logically, right on paper, I look at this logically, I'm like, is there a way to get unstuck on that area?

[00:49:35] Okay, so I'm stuck in finances. Okay. I'm really feeling stuck right now. I don't have any finances. Okay. Is there a way for me to sell something? Is there a way for me to go get a part time job? Is there a way for me to sell something in the house? Is there a service I can provide? Is there, because the answer is yes.

[00:49:55] The answer is yes. And so when you start to feel that stuck thing, there's a couple things you can do. One is write things down, like I said, because once you write it down, it's out of your head and on paper. It's not just rotating in your brain over and over again. You got it out. That's one. Second thing is you do what I call the red car syndrome.

[00:50:19] When you want to buy a red car, everybody and their mother has a freaking red car. You never seen a red car before, but now everybody has a red car. That means that you are focused on something that you shouldn't be focused on. So if you're feeling stuck, you're too focused. Unplug, right? So if you're too focused on your business and you're feeling overwhelmed, I'm not getting any clients.

[00:50:40] I'm not getting any clients. I'm not getting any clients. I'm not getting any clients. Guess what? You're not. You're right. You're not getting any clients because you're so hyper focused and stuck on that, that you're not even seeing opportunities. You're just not even seeing them, right? But if you see opportunities, get what every red car.

[00:50:56] If you're seeing a red car, you're going to see the red cars, right? So if you're seeing opportunities, see opportunities. Oh, I wonder if I should go to that networking event. I wonder if I should sign up for meet. com. If I wonder if I should do this, I wonder if I should go, have a dinner by myself, talk to the bartender.

[00:51:10] I wonder what you never get yourself out, like immediately if you're feeling stuck and I've been there, I've been stuck. Get yourself unstuck. And the first place is to stop telling yourself you're freaking stuck. Okay. You're not stuck. You're just not seeing the creativity or you're not seeing a different angle.

[00:51:29] You need to push back, pull yourself back from whatever it is. And just say, okay, if it was my friend or if it was somebody else, what would I do? What would I recommend? What would I suggest? But Rosie, there's so many ways to get out of that feeling of being stuck. And so our brain keeps us there because it's what we know.

[00:51:51] Yeah. And because it's what we know, it's going to keep you there because it wants to keep you safe. Your brain has only one job. Your subconscious brain is only to keep you safe. That it is job and whatever that means, so at any anything necessary, but remember we have what I think it's like I forgot how many millions of neurons we wake up with every morning that are ready to be activated, like little soldiers, so in the morning when negativity comes, cause it does, it comes like a wave. Sometimes as soon as you open your eyes, there it is to greet you. Hello. Yeah. When it's oh, yeah. That's when it comes and I'm like, Oh, you know what? We're not doing that today, actually, because I brain dumped last night and I have a great, a set of things I'm going to do this morning.

[00:52:36] That's my focus, gratitude and forward. I am not getting stuck. I refuse. I refuse. So as soon as I say I'm stuck, I'm like, actually, girl. Let's get creative. How do we get in stock? What do we do?

[00:52:51] And that's

[00:52:51] Rosie: what I do. Yeah. Such a powerful reframe. And really, it sounds so simple, and I guess it is.

[00:52:57] Stop getting

[00:52:58] Neena: in your way. Yeah, it's intentional. Yeah,

[00:53:00] Rosie: you just gotta be intentional.

[00:53:01] Neena: You really do. That's the thing.

[00:53:02] Rosie: Yeah.

[00:53:03] Neena: Yeah.

[00:53:03] Rosie: Yeah. Because, it's the whole confirmation bias thing or self fulfilling prophecy, whatever you want to call it. It's like you said, if you want a red car, all of a sudden you start seeing it everywhere.

[00:53:13] Yeah. Like when I wanted to buy a van, all of a sudden I'm seeing van conversions everywhere. They're just everywhere. So if you're right, if you're saying you're stuck, you're going to be finding evidence to back that belief up.

[00:53:25] Neena: So of course you're going to say stuff. And the truth is even when you saw all of the conversion vans, not everybody had one, but you saw it everywhere.

[00:53:33] Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's the same thing. You feel stuck and it's not everybody's going through that. There's other things happening in the world. So go focus on something different. And you'll see, you'll soon see yourself getting out of that feeling, and I think it's, you gotta be intentional though. That's the key. You have to want to do it. Your subconscious brain is not gonna let you. You're gonna want, you're gonna have to want to rewire and redo it. And it takes work.

[00:53:58] Rosie: Yeah. Yeah. Couldn't agree more. I have a final question for you and I ask this to all my guests and I can't wait to hear your answer.

[00:54:06] Yeah. Oh, she says, I want to know what does freedom

[00:54:11] Neena: mean to you? Oh, freedom means living my life on my terms. period. You know, It, it reminds me of this woman. I used to be in the medical field for 15 years and this woman, she was in her nineties and she came into the office and she was so sweet. And I said to her, can I ask you a question, a personal question?

[00:54:32] She goes, of course. I said, what is the one thing you regret more than anything in your life? And she said, never living my life on my own terms. I lived it for everyone else and not for me. And she said, now I can't now. Now it's too late. Don't let that happen to you. And I carried that with me all my life.

[00:54:52] Since I spoke into her, I was in my twenties and I'm 52. Wow. And so freedom means living your life. True. Truly. As a good person, what I mean by a good person is respecting others and having integrity and living your life on your terms. As long as you're not hurting anyone, causing any harm to anyone and being respectful and mindful, just live your life on your own freaking terms.

[00:55:14] Whatever that means. I had coaches say to me, Oh my God, you should be an eight figure coach by now. You have, you know so much about, I'm like, but did I ever say I wanted to be a coach? Yes. Like I never, don't put that on me. Don't put that on me. If I want that, I'll decide that when I want that I'm a six figure coach, I'm good with that.

[00:55:31] And I love my small groups and I love being with the women intimately, cause I had a coach come in and she did like this whole assessment. She's wow, you have an amazing business. Thank you. She goes, why don't you have 50, 60 people? Why do you have only groups of 10? I said, because that's what I want.

[00:55:44] Don't put your ideas on me. You know what I'm saying? And she was like, Whoa, okay. And I'm like, I'm not I'm like, because the women that I work with, I am intentional. I am with them in the trenches. We are building their business to align to their values. I can't do that with 50 women

[00:56:01] Rosie: at a

[00:56:01] Neena: time. I can't do that.

[00:56:04] So I will say living free is living your life on your freaking terms because you are the only one that has your life and you are not promised tomorrow. So make today count. That's how I see it. So powerful. That's a great question. Thank you.

[00:56:22] Rosie: I, the answers I get, I just love, you know, one day I'm like, maybe I should write a book about this because there's common themes, but also just, they're so diverse.

[00:56:34] And I, I just want to quickly touch on what you said. You know, You had this lady come in and, you know, say these things like he could be at this level. Why haven't you got 50 women? It's I don't want that. So your version of success or freedom or what you want life to look like is different to hers.

[00:56:49] And that's a good thing. Yes.

[00:56:52] Neena: Oh my God. Yes. And that's the thing. Like she has to constantly, and I love her, she's great, but she has to constantly keep up the facade and keep up the going and the going and the going and the going. I don't have to do that. I naturally have women come to me.

[00:57:07] I naturally have these beautiful conversations. I help these women build their businesses and I don't have to be fake or phony or out there or pushing and then making you buy from me, Rosie, because you have to buy from me because you got That's I don't work that way.

[00:57:21] I've never worked that way. I will never work that way because I love peace. I love joy. I love just being, I love having, and I'm very smart and strategic and I help people and it's great and that's good. And when I want to hit the next level, go on and hit the next level and so on. And that's it.

[00:57:42] Yeah. I don't need to be like anybody else. I'm not trying to.

[00:57:44] Rosie: Yeah. And I think everybody deserves and is capable of living life on their terms. Exactly. You deserve this. I think people think, oh, that's unrealistic or, I'm so lucky, I shouldn't want a different life. Why not? Why not?

[00:57:59] Neena: Why not? Exactly.

[00:58:01] You're in a converted van for God's sake. You can live your life however the hell you want, right? Yeah. It's like I have a friend of mine who did the same thing. Her and her husband bought an RV. They lived in it with their three children for I think almost two and a half years. And they just finally got a little house.

[00:58:16] And she's like, the house is too big, you know, because they've been living two years in this RV with their kids and their kids miss it. To the point where they're like, can we go, can we just go vacation in the RV somewhere? Yeah. And I'm just like, because they decided to live their own freaking life the way they wanted and their family thought they were crazy and that they were, that's, it's messed up.

[00:58:35] And why would you raise kids in that? But she did. And our kids are super smart. I don't know what to tell you, right? These kids are amazing. They're like, they're really good kids. She homeschooled them. They live together and they're so close as a family because they had to be, they were a small space.

[00:58:50] So they, they love each other and they love being with each other. So it's so amazing. Like just live your freaking life, man. Just live it. Yes.

[00:59:00] Rosie: Here's to living the life we want, right? And I just want to say, Nina. Thank you so much for this conversation. It's made me think about a lot of things and also just given me a really invigorating start to my day.

[00:59:13] So thank you for that. Thank you so much for having me. This was such a blessing. Thank you. Likewise.