72: Talking life transitions, freedom and simplicity with 15 time IronMan Jen Rulon

[00:00:00] Rosie: G'day and welcome to the Pursuit of Freedom podcast. I'm your host, Rosie Burrows, and I'm on a journey to find my freedom so that I can help you do exactly the same. Join me each week as I share the stories of everyday people who found their own path to freedom. I'm not going to focus on job titles and accolades because I don't care about that stuff, and neither should you.

[00:00:24] I want to uncover what truly makes you tick. Who are you when you step away from society's expectations and follow your heart? I still haven't figured it out yet. Have you? Either way, buckle up, because it's going to be one hell of a ride.

[00:00:44]

[00:00:44] Rosie: Welcome back to the Pursuit of Freedom podcast. I'm recording from Darwin today. It is really humid. It's in the 90 percents but it is beautiful. And joining me today is Jen Roulon. She is a 15 time Ironman triathlete, and she transitioned from being A triathlon coach to now coaching women through life transitions.

[00:01:09] And Jen, you moved to Costa Rica a couple of years ago now as a digital nomad at age 50, which I think is amazing. And you're also in the process of building your dream shipping container home. So congratulations. I just love that so much. And I want to say thank you for joining us. I'm really excited.

[00:01:28] Jen: Thanks for having me, Rosie. I, I saw your information on Podmatch, I believe is that's where we connected. And then we chatted prior to the podcast and I was like, I cannot wait for this podcast.

[00:01:39] Rosie: Yeah, this is great. Now I like to start diving into my guest's story. So can you just share a bit with us? Because surely you weren't always. An Ironman triathlete, surely. So what was life like and how did you end up being a triathlete?

[00:01:59] And then where you are now as a coach.

[00:02:02] Jen: Yeah. So in the States we had something called the presidential fitness test and we had to run a mile. We had to do sit ups, chin ups, like a sit and reach type of thing. And I was always the last or second to last runner. I hated absolutely running, hated it.

[00:02:26] Now, the sports that I played or that I was in was, softball. And I was very good at softball, played first base for most of my high school years. And then I was a cheerleader. I didn't do any track. I didn't do any cross country. And it's interesting because I was talking to my brother's coworker.

[00:02:46] And he's why didn't you tell me your sister's a badass? And he goes, my brother's because I'm embarrassed because she's the one that does all the exercise. He's she didn't do squat. She didn't do shit back in high school. And I didn't like, I wasn't that girl, so I was that girl that.

[00:03:02] Play group sports and stuff like that. But I started recognizing, my brother was the football player, the basketball player the baseball player. And in he and my dad had that beautiful bond together and it was very, and you could see that bond that they connected with as with sports.

[00:03:23] And so then. It was 1989. I was watching the ABC wide world of sports and it was when I, it was the Ironman triathlon. It was the Ironman world championship in Hawaii. And at that time it was Dave Scott and Mark Allen on a showdown of them running neck and neck. They were like, swim, bike, and then like, dance.

[00:03:44] Neck and neck. And then all of a sudden Mark just takes off and wins the race. Then an hour later, the first female crosses and it was Paula Newby Frazier, and I was 17 years old. And I said, huh, she can do it. I can do it. And I think what I liked about the Ironman was that because, if you don't know what an Ironman is, it's a 2.

[00:04:04] 4 mile swim, 112 mile bike and a marathon run. or I should say what 3. 8 K. 180 K and then 42 K. I think y'all are kilometers, right? Did I do okay? You did. Yeah. Yeah. So it made me realize Oh, this is something I want to do. So I went, I went and told my grandpa and my mom.

[00:04:25] So my dad's or my mom's dad. And I said, Hey, when I'm, when I get older, when I'm 30, I'm going to do the Iron Man world championship in Hawaii. And my grandpa said, when you go, I'll go with you. And it was that first aha moment of my life when, wow, somebody believed in me. Somebody didn't. Question. Jen, you don't run.

[00:04:47] . Because I did. I did it. I was 17 years old. Why would all of a sudden I be like, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do an Ironman in Hawaii for that matter. You gotta qualify. It's like Boston Marathon, right? But then you know that why was the grandpa, but then I did a TEDx talk and it was about.

[00:05:08] The, wanting my dad's validation through sports. I thought if my dad saw me do an extreme sport, then maybe he'll connect with me on it better. Like maybe I'll get that validation. But over time, after I crossed that first Ironman, I validated myself and didn't need my dad's validation anymore.

[00:05:31] Rosie: Such a powerful story.

[00:05:34] And I love that your granddad believed in you, like straight away, no hesitation. Straight away. Yeah.

[00:05:39] Jen: Yeah. Nothing at all. And it's crazy. Cause I was going through some boxes of things that I had and I have, I actually brought it down to Costa Rica. It's a letter of my, with my grandpa saying, okay, remember when you go to Hawaii, I'll be your sponsor.

[00:05:55] Wow.

[00:05:56] Rosie: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So such a difference, doesn't it? Having someone believe in you. Yeah. It does. Have you had things in life? Yeah. Where people don't believe in you or don't support what you're doing.

[00:06:10] Jen: I moved down to Costa Rica. People absolutely hated that, and I wouldn't say, I don't know about hated, they didn't agree with it.

[00:06:18] They thought I was running away from a failed marriage when in reality, I was running back to myself.

[00:06:25] Rosie: Oh yeah. Tell me more about that running back to yourself. That just fills me with all the warm, excited feelings.

[00:06:36] Jen: I think I am not, this is something I've realized over the last A couple of months, especially being on podcasts is that I am not your typical all American girl.

[00:06:52] Like I, I did things different. I didn't want kids, I wasn't the robot that took a nine to five job. I had a very physical demanding job back in the days before I got into the fitness field growing up after I got married, what happens, you just assume that you have kids and I'm like no, I don't want kids, but we tried anyways.

[00:07:19] And I had miscarriages. So it's like the universe and God knew exactly what was my path. And I already told them, Hey, I'm not interested, but I've always been that girl who just. Loves freedom. Liberation. And I am not part of society's norm and nor do I care to be here.

[00:07:45] So me wanting to go back to myself in Costa Rica, it was me being on the beach daily. It was me being on the ocean and living in San Antonio, Texas for 25 years. Obviously I wasn't on the ocean. But I was around water quite a bit.

[00:08:04] I was around water with my first job, and then I was around water as a triathlete, all of a sudden, as a triathlete, 2019, I stopped. Doing Ironmans, I was never around the water anymore. And so the water element is just who I am and, you know, people are like you could move, you can move down to Port Aransas, Texas, and you could go vacation, or you can go to California.

[00:08:32] I could go to Hawaii. Yeah, you're right. I could. But Costa Rica was calling my name and it was bringing me back to the girl that I remember seeing on the beach years ago.

[00:08:44] Rosie: Yeah. Isn't that interesting. I feel like it often is us going back. To who we truly were. It's like this full circle moment. We lose ourselves a little bit.

[00:08:56] We do. I want to unpack a little bit. You mentioned you never wanted kids. But despite that, you tried. And you're someone who loves freedom. You don't fit in the norms. You're already a rule breaker, right? You stand for what you believe in. So why? Why did you try for children anyway? Because I think a lot of people You Whether it's trying for children or something else, a lot of people do things that actually doesn't feel aligned, and they don't want to do.

[00:09:27] Jen: I thought that was the next thing to do and after we got married. I thought that was something that we needed to try that. That was something that everybody else wanted, but I did not. And I remember hearing, Oh, when you have kids, it's going to be different when this happens, it's going to be different.

[00:09:51] And I heard that all the time. Oh, you don't know the love that. You have when you have a child. No, you're right. I don't because I have a child, but I did have a child I had three well, I say four miscarriages I think one was a false pregnancy, but I had three DNC's because they weren't they the babies weren't staying they weren't holding So it was like it was God's way or higher power the universe saying Jen remember We told, you know, you said to us, we, you don't want kids.

[00:10:23] And even there was one time we actually, my ex and I went to a Oh, what do you call it? Like an in vitro clinic. And I just sat there and I was like, I looked around, I looked at him, I looked at the doctor and I just felt numb. And I walked out and I said, there are two ways. That if we're supposed to have a child, there's two ways, it's the natural way or adoption.

[00:10:53] I'm not doing, I'm not messing up with what, what I, what I said. This is not real. Like I can't do this. Good question. Rosie.

[00:11:04] Rosie: Oh, thank you. It's powerful stuff. Do you think, cause you thought it was the next thing to do. It's like this societal norm and expectation.

[00:11:14] Jen: Yeah.

[00:11:14] Rosie: Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that's tied to our self worth?

[00:11:17] Like it's something I've been thinking about a lot. There's, I've so often gone down a path and it's taken me a while to admit I'm doing this for someone else. Or it's almost like I'm trying to prove myself. Yes.

[00:11:30] Jen: Yes. Trying to prove yourself. Yeah. I feel that I was trying to prove myself. Yeah. I can have a kid.

[00:11:36] Of course I can have a kid. And then, I went to therapy after my miscarriages because I felt like a failure. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I wasn't able to hold a child, but I went and got all the tests done and they're like, no, you're fine. But the higher power knew exactly what was happening.

[00:11:57] Rosie: It's interesting.

[00:11:58] Isn't it? The universe has a way of giving us these signs, sometimes it takes a while for us to go, Oh, that's right. We're going to get the lesson a few times that we can be a bit slow. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But let's talk about the work you're doing at the moment with life transitions. Because I know you've, I mean, you've probably had heaps, right?

[00:12:23] We all have so many life transitions, but two pop out to me. Your divorce after I think it was it 18 years of marriage? 18, 18 years. And also you stopped doing triathlons. That was a part of your life for what, three decades, something?

[00:12:40] Jen: Bingo. You nailed it. 30 years.

[00:12:43] Rosie: Let's unpack those. Either one.

[00:12:45] I don't know if you got a preference, but let's dive in because I think a lot of the listeners are sort of 40 plus and it's a time in life you're almost guaranteed to have a big life transition, right? It just seems to hit you at that time. And I'm speaking as someone who's. It's 33, but I see it all the time.

[00:13:06] So I know people are going to be leaning forward, holding their breath, waiting to hear this. Yeah. Because it really affects your sense of self, your identity. You've been this person for so long and then it's just gone.

[00:13:20] Jen: 100%. The, I shared the story today as well because I feel like it was so powerful.

[00:13:28] It was six weeks before. My, I, before Ironman, Florida in 2019, so pretty much five years ago. And I was at an event in Boulder, Colorado. I was asked to do some speaking events for an endurance group. It's called training peaks. It's how we, it's, As a coach, I still coach triathletes and runners, but it's the platform that I use to work with them.

[00:13:52] Anyways, I was there talking and I remember watching Stacey Sims. I believe, is she Australian? She might be new. I don't know. I'm the wrong person. Yeah. No, that's okay. So Stacey does an amazing job when it comes to perimenopause and menopausal women. And she does a lot of research about it and it's fantastic.

[00:14:13] So I highly recommend listening to Stacey. But Stacey, during her keynote, talking to a huge room of triathletes, and endurance athletes and cyclists. And she said flat out, if you are perimenopausal or menopausal, stop doing long, slow distance stuff and start lifting heavy shit. And I was like, damn, that's impact.

[00:14:41] That's, That's powerful to say that triathletes. But it got me thinking cause I was like, man, I'm six weeks away from possibly my last Ironman. So when I got back home in San Antonio, I said, all right, no more drinking for six weeks. And I was like, all right, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to like focus because this may be my last Ironman.

[00:15:10] It may be my last Ironman. So then. I got to the race lean. I was at my race weight. I was always at one 29 was my race weight in pounds. Like I was spot on with everything, I was drinking my sleeping, like everything was spot on.

[00:15:27] It was like bam. So I'm out on that race course. I did the swim, I did the bike, and then about at mile one and a half, I remember, cause I'm in Panama City Beach, Florida, so we're right on the Gulf Coast, and so I remember going up a hill, turning left, and I saw the street sign, it said surf drive.

[00:15:48] Which I was like, huh, okay, looked out to the right. I see the ocean. And I said, God I need to ask you, I have a question for you. I need your advice. Two things. One first thing is first, if that I qualify or that I'm first or second in my age group, and I qualify for Ironman Hawaii again in 2020.

[00:16:10] And. No, if, ands or buts like I'm in, or number two, I crossed the finish line. I have the best race of my life. Doesn't matter what age group I am or what part of my age group I'm in and I'm done and I pushed it. I had a phenomenal race. It was actually one of my. It was actually the best race I've ever raced at an Ironman.

[00:16:37] And I crossed the finish line. I saw my ex, my mother and my mother in law, and I asked them, I go, what was my time? They said a 10, 46, 47. I visualized a 10, 46, 23. Wow. I don't know how, why. And then I said, what was my placement? In my age group, they said seventh, I'm done. I'm done. And the universe spoke to me.

[00:17:09] It said you're done. And so the next day, my ex is like, you want to go to the award ceremony? I'm like, no, I don't need to. I didn't place in the top five and I'm not going to Hawaii. I'm done. And he was like, really? I'm like, no, I'm done. And I literally just sold my bike. Like. Wow. Yeah, I mean

[00:17:38] Rosie: it's a big deal.

[00:17:40] Jen: It's a big deal.

[00:17:41] Rosie: That's a, whoa. Just me thinking about that. Something that's part of your life for so long. And you made that decision in the moment. That's it. Mm hmm. So it's not surprising it took five years to let go of a bike. Yeah. The bike leg is, you know, a third of a triathlon, right?

[00:18:00] Jen: Right.

[00:18:01] Right. Yeah. It's crazy because tonight I had a little bit of moment out on the I took my surfboard out and yesterday I caught a whole bunch of great waves. And then today I went out there and the waves were eh, they weren't the best. They were closing out too close to shore. So I really wasn't catching any waves.

[00:18:21] I grabbed a couple, but then all of a sudden I started paddling and I looked and I'm like, you know what? You're not. You're not supposed to be here for surfing. You're here to supposed to be here for the sunset. And it was the most magical sunset of just being on that surfboard. And I looked out and I looked around and I just took everything in.

[00:18:42] I just had this big

[00:18:43] like, because it was five years ago on December 7th, so three days, three days, three, December 7th. In three days. It was the first time I came down to Costa Rica and it was the last time I took my last drink of alcohol. Wow. And it was that moment of today's moment was being out of that surfboard and just.

[00:19:16] Just being happy as fuck

[00:19:21] and just taking it all in because I don't know if I saw that girl that came down for the first time five years ago, I wouldn't recognize her.

[00:19:35] Rosie: And I don't think we should either. Like I like to think, you know, personal growth, we're changing. If I'm the same person I was five years ago, damn, I need to look in the mirror,

[00:19:46] Jen: make some tough

[00:19:47] Rosie: decisions.

[00:19:47] Yeah. Yeah. I want to dig into this a bit more, because this all sounds amazing, like a bit challenging, but here you are today, it's, three days before the time of recording, the third anniversary, I think, of you being in Costa Rica.

[00:20:05] I don't know, did you have a breakdown? Was there an existential crisis? Like you just sound like this wasn't too full on, I know for me, I'm going, Oh, I'd be on the floor.

[00:20:17] Jen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think. Long story short, we, my ex and I, we started going to see therapy in 2019 and Was it because I stopped doing triathlons because that's what bonded us?

[00:20:34] Was it because I stopped drinking alcohol? Was that what bounded, bonded us? I don't know. That's, we went to, here's a great example as a big picture of. Who we were as a couple, we did Ironmans everywhere all around the world. We did Racecations. Our honeymoon was Ironman Western Australia in Busselton.

[00:20:59] Not many people do that. Right. Right. So, like, you know, That the, the race was, the races was our thing. And I tell people this, because people ask like what happened, and it's not just one thing that happens with a divorce. It's stuff over time. And we did an amazing job at our jobs.

[00:21:24] he's a lawyer. And I was running my business as a, I was well known in the triathlon space. Like a lot of people knew our name. We knew who they knew who Rulan racing was. They knew who Jen Rulan was. They called Chris the silent assassin. Cause the guy would go in fricking race, win his age group.

[00:21:41] Heck sometimes he would even win the race. And then all of a sudden, like they would announce his name and they'd be like, Chris Rulan. It was like crickets. Gone. He's I gotta go. I got stuff to do. Like he didn't stay for the awards which is great. But we did really good at our business, but then we did really good at our triathlon, at our sport, we didn't do the best job in our relationship.

[00:22:01] That's how I see it. Now, of course you might have a different perspective and I get that, that's totally normal. But I remember saying, I think we need to. therapy, like something's not connecting. We're not meshing, and so we went to therapy and the crazy thing was, it was like 2019 we started and then 2020 happened to all of us.

[00:22:23] So then that really dug us, dug, we had to dig deep because we were around each other's space for, For months, I was working from home already as a digital. No, man. I started Jen Merlot, I started my business 2007 or 13. So I've been doing it for a while. And even he was like, how did, how do you do this?

[00:22:43] I'm like earbuds, YouTube or Spotify. Like you just have to you, you gotta, you just gotta keep flowing. And then I remember in 2021, I was going to write another book and he suggested that we do a trial separation and I agreed to it. And then it, I think that, I don't think that was the best choice for us.

[00:23:05] I don't, I think that, that hurt us more than anything because it taught me that I'm good. I can survive without them. Do you think that's a bad thing though? No, it's not. Yeah.

[00:23:21] Rosie: No. Some people really see divorce as, failure. I don't have a better word. There's some people in my life who are maybe 20, 30 plus years older than me.

[00:23:34] And they have this view that no matter what you make the marriage work, you do not get divorced. No. I think a lot of people in society still have that view. Where on earth does that come from?

[00:23:48] Jen: I don't know. I, I want to say it's like my grandparents generation, maybe like the world war II, like you just put your head down and turn like you just, or the Mad Men era, like that type of like seventies, sixties, fifties but now it's I think about, I actually had this moment, my grandma Fritching, so my dad's mom, like I remember my grandma saying, grandma Fritching saying, I've always wanted to go to Scotland, but your grandfather doesn't like to fly.

[00:24:21] So she never went to Scotland, but she sat in her chair. And lost her eyesight. And I live and that now I'm getting emotional because I literally said this today on that board. When that sun went down, I said, this one's for you, grandma. I haven't thought about my grandma fridging in ages, but it's true.

[00:24:45] Like I want to see the world for her. Cause she didn't get to experience that. Cause she. And that was that era, right? That was that era that you just stayed. I don't know if she was happy. I don't know, you know, but you just stayed. And even my mom's generation, I think, you know, my mom's been through two divorces, they thought I was batshit crazy for asking for the divorce.

[00:25:10] And I did ask for the divorce. I was the one that asked for it. What are you doing? Why are you doing that? Like I had everybody's chatter in my head and I'm like this is between me and my ex. It's not between y'all, this is a relation,

[00:25:23] Rosie: this is

[00:25:24] Jen: a relationship. It's not between all my other sibling or, my brother, my, my mom,

[00:25:30] Rosie: that type of thing.

[00:25:31] Yeah. Everybody has something to say. And they speak, Oh, they

[00:25:35] Jen: sure do everybody. They sure do everybody. I got to a point where I was very rude to a lot of people because I was like, Nope, you don't need to know the details. I deleted over 2000 people on Facebook. I went private. I'm just like, you're an acquaintance.

[00:25:53] You're not a friend. If you're not in my phone, you're not a friend.

[00:25:57] Rosie: And I'm

[00:25:57] Jen: still, I still do that today on Facebook. I'll still go in there and look at birthdays and I'm like, who's this? Unfollow. Yeah. I had a call

[00:26:06] Rosie: recently, like I've never had such a small kind of circle on Facebook, but I'm like, so what?

[00:26:13] So what? So what? Yeah. And you said you were quite rude to some people, but really, isn't it rude that they're trying to butt into your business and indirectly saying my beliefs, my opinions are more important than yours.

[00:26:28] Jen: And that's the thing. People don't know what you've been through,

[00:26:35] Rosie: Yeah.

[00:26:36] Jen: And I didn't want to paint. A bad picture about my ex. He's a great guy. He is, he's a great human being. And I know that, but I didn't want to talk about our problems. With my family members, because then they would have a view about him. They would have a view about me. And then if they talked to him, they would get his side.

[00:27:02] And so I'm like no, you don't need to know. You just need to support me. That's all that matters. And if you can't, then I'm going to cut you off.

[00:27:12] Rosie: Yeah. Simple as that. It really makes me think, like I haven't been married, but I, last year I ended a, an eight year relationship and I had some people go, Oh, but you were she was so good for you.

[00:27:25] Are you sure it's over? I thought, I've just told you we've split up. Yes, it's over. I don't care if you think she was good for me. Actually we weren't good for each other. Like it was mutual. You don't. You don't know what was going on. Shut up.

[00:27:43] Jen: No, exactly. So true. They don't know what's going on and they'll never know because they are not living in your shoes.

[00:27:51] Yeah.

[00:27:52] Rosie: What's your advice for people going through something like that? People are putting their opinions on them. It's almost like they don't mean to, they have good intentions, but they're actually squashing your dreams. How do we navigate that?

[00:28:09] Jen: Surround yourself with the people that are going to support you and your decision versus the situation. Oh, that was deep. It was deep. We need to, I got to remember that one. We need to repeat

[00:28:28] Rosie: it. Surround yourself with people who support you rather than the situation.

[00:28:35] Jen: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:38] Rosie: We need to write that one down.

[00:28:40] Jen: We do need to write that one down. I need to type that out.

[00:28:44] Rosie: What if though, we don't have any of those people in our life? It's like we have to start from scratch. That is terrifying.

[00:28:54] Jen: Yeah. Good point.

[00:28:56] Deep down, your decision. Yeah. And I think about this in the triathlon space, you have a little angel on one corner, you have a little devil on the other, and they're like, the angel's Oh my God, you're rocking it. You're amazing. And the devil's you're slow as molasses. What are you doing?

[00:29:14] But that same, those same two angel devil are on your shoulder talking to you. Oh my God, you're going to, you're going to thrive. This is going to be amazing. I'm so proud of you. You're finally taking care of yourself. You're giving yourself self love, not selfish. And then, it's this person over here saying, or the little devil saying, what are you going to do?

[00:29:35] You're not going to be worth anything. Like you're not married. You're not, you're going through a divorce. Oh, you're a divorcee. Oh, Good luck at being, 53 years old, you're going through a divorce, you could have that, but sometimes you just got to flick that devil off and be like, shut up.

[00:29:51] Shut up.

[00:29:51] Rosie: Yeah. That's true. I've had to distance myself from a lot of people to really embrace who I am. Like I live in my van full time. I started last year, which is

[00:30:02] Jen: amazing,

[00:30:04] Rosie: but I'd wanted to do that for almost 10 years. But I was listening to the devil and all the people who were just like, what are you going to do that for?

[00:30:12] What a waste. So then what did, so then what did you do? I took my sweet ass time, but you know, I lost my dad when I was 21 and then mom got sick and with terminal cancer and she deteriorated really quickly. And I thought, what the fuck are you doing, Rosie? Do you really have to learn this lesson twice before you start living?

[00:30:38] So I went out. I bought a van, it was probably a few days or a week or something before mum died. And even after she died, it took me four years to actually do the thing. It was hard, but slowly over time I just distanced myself from the people I realized were holding me back. And these are people who I really care about, but I realized they're not actually serving me anymore.

[00:31:05] They're not bad people, I think they have good intentions, but me keeping them close is I just don't have the strength to block them out, so I need to distance myself. And that's when I just, I quit my job, I ended my relationship, and two weeks later I was in the van, traveling Australia. Just like that.

[00:31:25] Yeah.

[00:31:25] Jen: Amazing. That's incredible.

[00:31:29] Rosie: It felt so empowering.

[00:31:32] Jen: Yeah. Packing two big bags to come down. I put everything that I owned in a storage unit in a five by 10 storage unit, and I packed two bags of worth of clothes. And then at one point I went back and grabbed like some other things and just other like other clothes and stuff like that.

[00:31:55] And with living in Costa Rica, I have to do a border run every 180 days. So it was very easy. I'm like, okay, I'll just go to the storage unit, grab some more clothes. And then finally in April of this past year, I went into that storage unit and I went from a five by 10 to a five by five. And the goal is next year in May is to eliminate the storage unit because hopefully my two bedroom, two bath container home will be will be done by that time.

[00:32:25] Rosie: So that's exciting. And for listeners who use metric five foot, I think that's about a meter and a half. It's a meter and a half by a meter and a half storage unit. That's not a lot. Yeah.

[00:32:36] Jen: Is it meter? Oh gosh. I think. It's the, It's the big shipping container.

[00:32:41] Rosie: Oh no, sorry. The storage unit, not the, not the house.

[00:32:44] Not

[00:32:44] Jen: the storage unit. Not. Yeah. Yeah. The house is bigger than a minute. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. That would be very small. Yeah. I am definitely not in a, I am definitely not in a tiny house. It's a, It's a decent, I mean, it's a, it's 40 feet for one shipping container, which I don't know the conversion. What is

[00:33:01] Rosie: that?

[00:33:02] Just over 12 meters. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. But for most people's standards, that's a small home for most people. It's a small home. You're right. Because for some reason we think we need a big home. Since moving into the van, I'm like,

[00:33:17] Jen: huh. Yeah, you get it. No, you totally get it. I left, being in San Antonio, I was in a Big house over 3000 square feet.

[00:33:27] Like it was just he and I,

[00:33:31] Rosie: and

[00:33:31] Jen: What happened? Like, where did it, where'd the love go? There was more love in our little 1600 square foot home, and it's we started growing and we started. Building and building more in the businesses and our jobs. And then it's Oh, we gotta get, we gotta get more.

[00:33:47] And then it's like, well, how much is enough? Like how much more do we need? Like, where's the limit? Where's the max.

[00:33:59] So

[00:33:59] Rosie: what's made you embrace a more, is minimalist the word or just a more simplified life? What was there a moment that triggered that or has it been a gradual process?

[00:34:11] Jen: I definitely think it's been a gradual process now as we're talking about it, because, do I go back to the States and still go to Lululemon and buy, speed shorts, even though I have 20 speed shorts in my bag, in my closet, right?

[00:34:25] Sure. Yes, I do that. Yeah. But I think I'm very sel like selective of what I buy and what I spend my money on. It's I'll look at something and I'm like, I don't feel it. That's wasting money. It's just going to sit in the closet. Or it just or, you know what I did when I went to the storage unit, I literally took bins of clothes I dumped and I was like, keep, try on, donate, keep, try on, donate.

[00:34:58] And then all of the ones that I tried on, I was like, it was either keep donate or take with you. Donate, take with you. Donate, even when I tried it on and I'm like, Ooh, I don't like how that looks. Don't donate. If it didn't make me feel good or sexy or confident, I'm like, No, why am I keeping it?

[00:35:17] Yeah. How many like t shirts do I really need? Yeah. Not many. So yeah, you've probably got the same rotation.

[00:35:26] Rosie: Oh yeah. My, my last job I was working at a university. And I had the corporate clothes and the jacket and the whatever, and the dresses and that's really not me, but I felt like I had to dress that way because that's what was expected.

[00:35:41] So I wasn't showing up as my true self. And slowly, I was only in that at the university, I think two years or two and a half something. But after the first 12 months, I started, I just was like, I don't give a shit. And I just started wearing like really casual stuff, like I'm not really someone who enjoys wearing dresses or stuff like that.

[00:36:04] So I'd rock up in a polo shirt and chinos and, people would look at me and I'm just like, yep, whatever. I felt so confident. For sure. And. I think more of us need to do that. Why do we need to dress a certain way if it doesn't make us feel good, we're doing it for someone else. Yeah.

[00:36:22] Jen: Yeah. Now, do I, living in Costa Rica, I'm always in workout clothes and a bikini.

[00:36:28] Do I miss dressing up? Yes. But there are times where I will get on calls and I'm like, you know what, I'm going to wear a dress today or I'll, you know, or I'm going to go out to dinner where my boyfriend works. He's a chef. And I'm going to be like, I'm going to wear a dress. I'm actually going to do it.

[00:36:44] I'm going to actually put on a little makeup, and I'll feel, but for the most part, like I it's just stuff

[00:36:52] Rosie: and it's your choice, right? What you're wearing. You say, sometimes you want to dress up and look this way and that is totally okay. Just because someone who embraces minimalism says, no, you got to wear the same t shirt and same pants every day.

[00:37:05] Like fuck that. I don't want to do that. I'm going to do it my way. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:37:09] Jen: Yeah. That's funny. You said my way because my dad's favorite song, Frank Sinatra, my way, and uh, there was a time where I was with my boyfriend and I heard that song and it was just like, tears came to my eyes because it was like, Oh my God, that's my dad.

[00:37:28] And so I sent that to my brother, I told him what happened and he's looks like you're taken after your dad, aren't you? Yeah. I'm like, Ooh, I am powerful. How

[00:37:42] Rosie: do we encourage people to do it their way?

[00:37:45] Do we even have that power?

[00:37:47] Jen: I don't know. Yeah. Like I everybody has to take their time on their time. So I get it. So as a coach, If I'm working on your fitness and your nutrition, but I also tap into that mindset, like currently I'm working with a woman who lost her son five years ago and.

[00:38:12] She has a hard time still going into his bedroom. She hasn't cleaned out the bedroom. And I'm like, I get it. I go, you know what, you're going to do this on your time. I said, but first let's take care of yourself. Let's take care. Let's get back to the running girl that she used to be. Let's get back to yoga.

[00:38:30] Let's get back to tracking your macros, like little things like that. So she could start feeling confident and stronger about herself because it was a suicide. And so she felt. Like it, it was her fault. So I'm trying to help her like, it's not your fault, but let's start taking care of yourself. And it's been cool because the last year she's been working with me, I've seen her transition and she's like, I'm ready.

[00:39:03] It's time. Yeah. And I think it's because she's starting to see the changes in herself. She's starting to see physically, emotionally, mentally. She's ready. She's ready to. It's going to take a little bit. I get it. Because and here's a great thing with women and this is what I've heard or read.

[00:39:27] You're not going to say I want a divorce right now. Like it's going to take a couple years until you actually say that if that's what you're want, but it takes like, You try and you try and you do all this stuff, it can take, you know, it's going to take a couple of years and it's not going to happen overnight.

[00:39:49] Rosie: And there's no one way to do it. No. Like this client you're working with, she lost her son to suicide and you don't go here's the five stages of grief and this is when you need to go through each one and this is where you are right now and you're doing the wrong thing. No. No. I've had that experience, by the way, with counselors pretty much.

[00:40:09] When my dad died, I went to a grief counselor. She drew on the whiteboard the five stages of grief and announced that I was in denial. And I said no, no, I know my dad's dead. I'm quite angry about it, but it was just felt so clinical. I'm like, go away. For sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Doing it our way.

[00:40:33] I think that's what I want for everybody. And I don't know if everyone gets there, but something I've had to accept is you can't force it on somebody.

[00:40:43] Jen: No. And I think too You're going to hurt people along the way if you do it your way. Yes. But you're going to hurt people along the way if you don't do it your way.

[00:40:55] And the person you're going to hurt is yourself. Yeah.

[00:41:02] Rosie: There's a price to pay for every decision we make. For sure. Yeah.

[00:41:08] Jen: Wow. We're doing a lot of vomiting on your followers.

[00:41:13] Rosie: Some philosophical deep

[00:41:14] Jen: shit. Exactly. I love it. Rosie. I freaking love it. I love it. These

[00:41:19] Rosie: conversations are my favorite. Oh, this kind of doesn't fit in with the conversation, but I want to bring it up because this is something you said to me when we first met.

[00:41:30] And you mentioned it earlier, actually, about lifting heavy. You told me a statistic that just made me go, what about muscle mass? Can you share that with us?

[00:41:41] Jen: Of course. So when men and women uh, now I'm like brain farting cause you put me on the spot.

[00:41:50] No, no, no. I have got it written down if you forget. Yeah.

[00:41:53] So, um, Starting at 30 years, 30 years old, we will start losing muscle mass two to 5%. per decade. After 60, it gets worse. So the goal for men and women is to really start keeping that muscle mass on as long as we can for as long as we can, because it's not about looking good in the bikini or all that stuff.

[00:42:23] As we age in our sixties, seventies, it's about us getting on the ground and hanging out with your grandchild or, grabbing a piece of paper that landed on the floor. And then all of a sudden you bend down and you're like, Oh my God, my back. I can't move, things like that. Or it's also there's a great ad.

[00:42:40] I've seen the ad and I can't, I don't remember where I saw it, but it was this little old man and he kept practicing like like with a kettlebell and he kept practicing like lifts and shoulders and all that stuff. And then at Christmas time, He went to go pick up his granddaughter and they go put the star on the Christmas tree.

[00:43:01] It was like the sweetest commercial ever. I don't know. I don't even know what the commercial was for, but but it was, I think that's where. I like to see men and women start getting into the gym, start strength training, do it yesterday. You start yesterday. Like it has to happen.

[00:43:18] Rosie: And the fact that it starts at age 30, I had no idea.

[00:43:24] Like I've begun that journey. Good. Good. Stay on it. Gosh. Yeah. Like lifting heavy feels amazing, but I think women in particular are quite scared of doing that. For sure. For sure. For sure.

[00:43:38] Jen: And and I think too, you're not going to lift heavy right away. You can't, think about that.

[00:43:45] Like when I start working with somebody and they're brand new to the gym, I'm not going to be like, all right, I'm going to put you under a bar. I'm going to put a heavy load on you. No, not at all. I'm going to say, okay, we're going to do five, five sets of 10 air squats. Maybe we'll add a dumbbell in two, three weeks.

[00:44:03] But let's see how the squats are, same with pushups or, any body weight stuff. I'm not going to make you, people do power cleans and snatches and flipping tires and all that fun stuff. But I will make you get into the gym and I'll, you're going to start gradually increasing your weight.

[00:44:20] And I think what I love too, about my women is that when, I asked them to take pictures and measurements and weight and they weigh in every Friday. And so the very first photo they take, they're like, grr, like they're not happy with their body. Like you see the face, you see the scowl on their face.

[00:44:39] And then three months later you just see that they're them beaming oh my God, I've lost 15 pounds. I look stronger. Oh my gosh. So it's pretty incredible to see that transition with the women that I work with. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:44:52] Rosie: Yeah. And this pisses me off, women are scared of getting bulky or muscly, so Oh God.

[00:45:00] Jen, will we turn into the Incredible Hulk if we start lifting heavy? Not at all. No.

[00:45:06] Jen: No. You're There are two ways to get extremely large is one is, is Sports enhancing drugs. Testosterone and then eating a crap ton. I am, I'm five, eight, one, eh, one 34, one 33 just depends on the day.

[00:45:27] And. I will not get bulky. I will not get big. I am not. My body type is not designed to be that way. It's not. I'm, I have a, I still have the runner's body, still have the, the surfing body, I'm not going to get bulky. I, I have some muscles on me. Yes, but I'm not going to get bulky.

[00:45:49] I can't, I don't eat enough.

[00:45:52] Rosie: Get over it ladies. Get

[00:45:55] Jen: over it ladies. Exactly.

[00:45:57] Rosie: Like you just feel better. And you know what you were saying about that was it the grandpa lifting the girl up to put the stuff in the tree? Yeah. It just improves your quality of life. Yeah.

[00:46:08] Jen: Oh, 100%.

[00:46:10] Rosie: Why wouldn't you want that?

[00:46:12] Jen: Yeah. Yeah. And you don't have to start off string training five days a week, two days a week, and then you're going for a walk. Like with my ladies, Oh my God. Walking as a triathlete. I was like, Oh, walking, schmocking, blah, blah, blah. Now I'm all like, I'm going to go for a walk. I think the biggest like, you know, with my clients, I'd be like, All right.

[00:46:37] 90 ounces of water. I want you to walk at least eight, eight to 10, 000 steps and they're like, Oh my God, that's a lot. I'm like, all right, let's pull it back a little bit. Then we'll gradually work yourself up. Same with the water. Oh, that's a lot. Let's work yourself up. I'm not going to put you in the gym five days a week.

[00:46:53] Hey, let's do some body weight stuff. Let's do that two times a week. Hey, let's do that three times a week. It's a gradual process.

[00:47:01] Rosie: Yeah. It's not all or nothing, right?

[00:47:05] Jen: No. No, it's a long term, it's a long term journey for the fitness space. It's not, and it's funny 'cause so many, for so many, for 30 years I was chasing a finish line, girl.

[00:47:19] I don't wanna chase a finish line 'cause that means I'm dead.

[00:47:25] Yeah, that is so true. Yeah. I'm 53 and so I'm going into the second year of of my, or the second. Gears of my life. If I'm chasing a finish line, that's nah, I'm good. I don't need to chase that finish line anymore.

[00:47:43] Rosie: Yeah. And that's kind of why I'm beginning to really hate.

[00:47:47] goals because they often set a finish line. I mean, I think goals have a place and I haven't quite figured it out, but I, this whole mindset of reach this goal, I'll reach goals. And then I just feel empty because it's Oh, what's next? You're just going on to the next thing. And it's hang on a minute.

[00:48:07] Look what you just achieved.

[00:48:09] Jen: It's funny because when I first bought and signed my land, what's the first thing people say what's next? What's next? Yeah. It's wait, I just signed papers for land on July 4th, which was independence day for the U S I'm living in Costa Rica.

[00:48:27] That's talk about freedom, like talk about freedom, you know? so for me, it's like, why can't I just, Enjoy the process. And that's what my boyfriend and I talk about. Like we talk about that a lot. Enjoy the journey, enjoy the process. We're always trying to chase that next goal. Next goal, Next goal.

[00:48:46] But in reality, it's right here. What's happening right now.

[00:48:51] Rosie: Yeah, absolutely. And that

[00:48:56] Jen: surfboard teaches me about the now, because if I'm focusing on the past, I'm focusing on the future, I'm going to get slammed by a wave. But what I can do is just sit there and enjoy that moment.

[00:49:12] Rosie: My final question for you, and this is something I ask all my guests, what does freedom mean to you?

[00:49:20] Jen: Oh, happiness.

[00:49:25] Peace.

[00:49:32] Alive.

[00:49:34] Rosie: Yeah. When I'm listening to you say those words, it's a feeling, I think. And it's not necessarily tangible.

[00:49:47] But at the same time, there's no one definition of freedom. If you're listening and you don't agree with that, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:55] Oh, Jen, I'll ask you the same question. Oh, no, I'm hanging up. That's it.

[00:50:05] Oh, so what does freedom mean to me?

[00:50:08] Jen: Uh Huh.

[00:50:10] Rosie: I think my answer to this has been evolving over time. Sure. And I need to go back and listen to past episodes to see my progression on this. I think it'd be interesting. I agree. But what I'm becoming to realize more and more, it is a feeling. It's not a destination for me.

[00:50:30] And when I feel most free, you said it's feeling alive. I agree. When I feel most alive, I feel most free. And those moments are when I'm present. And when I'm in nature, that is really important. I

[00:50:45] Jen: feel

[00:50:45] Rosie: very grounded. I feel grounded. And freedom is feeling aligned with who I am, like staying true to myself is a big thing for me.

[00:50:55] I got a tattoo on my arm saying stay true because, oh my gosh, it's easy to stray from that. And I'm somebody who very much, I default into wanting to please people and I place more importance on their opinions and beliefs than my own. So I fall into that trap a lot and I think others do as well. So I'm just reminding myself, stay true.

[00:51:19] Because when I don't, I just feel I'm not happy. And things don't turn out and, you know, you can usually reverse it and get yourself back on the right path. But if you can recognize those early red flags, you go, hang on a minute, hang on a minute, course correct.

[00:51:37] Jen: That makes sense. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, it's true. I'm curious,

[00:51:41] Rosie: what like, what are your red flags or warning signs that you Drifting away from what feels right.

[00:51:50] Jen: I go back to the little girl that was trying to get her dad's attention. Yeah. I go back to the girl or to the the woman that was put on the shelf.

[00:52:07] And I'll go back. One of the biggest red flags for me though, as of recently is when I. Try to organize your control, like what's happening.

[00:52:23] Rosie: Yeah, that resonates.

[00:52:26] Jen: And it's And it's funny. Cause my boyfriend's like, Jen, we just got to go with the flow. I'm like, ah, the American, the American is coming out again.

[00:52:35] Because like we're regiment like blah, blah, blah. But here in Costa Rica, it's very flowing. It's very free. It's the pure Vita life. And a lot of my, I hang out with a lot of locals and they've taught me that and it's helped me drastically.

[00:52:53] Rosie: Yeah. Cause often the things we obsess about controlling, we actually don't have any control over why are we wasting time and energy trying to control something that's out of our hands.

[00:53:04] Jen: Or another thing that I think about too is like, how many times do we have to talk about the same thing over and over.

[00:53:12] Rosie: Oh, yeah.

[00:53:14] Yeah, because Rand and Rand.

[00:53:17] Jen: Yeah.

[00:53:18] Rosie: Yeah. Jen, this was an amazing conversation. I'm going to go back and re listen because there's some truth bombs and some big gold nuggets in there. There is.

[00:53:27] Jen: There is. I know. I can't wait to listen.

[00:53:30] Rosie: Yeah. So just want to say a big thank you. It's been a pleasure and such a nice start to my day. I didn't want to get out of bed this morning.

[00:53:37] I was like, Ugh, do I have to? But jumped on this call and just your energy and excitement for life and the experiences you have to share. It's been really uplifting. So thank you very,

[00:53:51] very much.

[00:53:53] Jen: Thanks, Rosie.