69: Don't Believe Everything you Think with Mette Reebirk

[00:00:00] Rosie: G'day and welcome to the Pursuit of Freedom podcast. I'm your host, Rosie Burrows, and I'm on a journey to find my freedom so that I can help you do exactly the same. Join me each week as I share the stories of everyday people who found their own path to freedom. I'm not going to focus on job titles and accolades because I don't care about that stuff, and neither should you.

[00:00:24] I want to uncover what truly makes you tick. Who are you when you step away from society's expectations and follow your heart? I still haven't figured it out yet. Have you? Either way, buckle up, because it's going to be one hell of a ride.

[00:00:44]

[00:00:44] Rosie: Welcome back to the Pursuit of Freedom podcast. I'm sitting in my van in a parking lot because where I'm staying at the moment has lots of trees so the Starlink doesn't get internet. I'm here with the amazing Mettete Reebirk. She's an author, she's an executive coach, and she's dedicated over 20 years of her life helping experienced leaders realize their true potential and free themselves from anxiety.

[00:01:12] I'm not going to say any more because I think hearing you talk is going to do so much more justice to what you're all about. So, Mette, thank you so much for joining me today.

[00:01:23] Mette: Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

[00:01:26] Rosie: No, of course. And I just have to say, I always feel a lot of shame with mispronouncing people's names.

[00:01:32] But you were so kind to me the first time I met you. And you said, Rosie, there's a Danish saying that a dear child has many names. Yeah, exactly. And that really stuck with me. So

[00:01:44] Mette: Oh, you're welcome.

[00:01:46] Rosie: Now I like to start these episodes hearing my guest's stories. So where you are today I'm sure isn't where you started. So what were you like? Let's go back to when you were a little girl. What were you like? What was life like?

[00:02:05] Mette: Oh, that's a lovely question. Life was lovely, actually. I'm born into a small family, mom and dad.

[00:02:16] I'm a twin. Um, wow. At that time, my twin brother was still alive. Kim, was his name. Um, and my father, had a small company and my mom, was, helping him out, um, and taking care of us. Uh, . Um, very, very secure. Very lovely. I've always been told that, it wasn't so important what I became, but what was important was that I learned something.

[00:02:48] So, education and, curiosity, how smart I was. things function, have always been very important in the way I was brought up. a lot of hugs and, no big trauma, uh, situations until the age of almost 23. because, then my twin brother, Kim, he unfortunately passed away due to an accident in the United States.

[00:03:17] he was a student and he had, yeah, he was an accident. and then suddenly, I came to see that I usually never said I, I always said we and us. Wow. And suddenly, it was an I, and I had to learn to be only me. and of course in the beginning it was very, very difficult,

[00:03:48] and also my parents, and, my mom, she was, showed to be a very, very strong lady, regardless of her upbringing, so she was a huge support to me and my dad. and yeah, over the time, I came to see that, um, that maybe he never really left me, my brother. Because he's, uh, he's still there around me, supporting me, and, I became quite fast, actually, aware of that.

[00:04:28] he visited me also in my dreams, and told me that it was okay, everything was okay. it was how it was. And then I grew up, went to university. Um,actually I was the first in our family who got, high school degree and then definitely very first to, to go to university. Yeah.

[00:04:53] I study, for seven years. And, also in France, I come from Denmark.

[00:04:58] I

[00:05:00] Mette: live in Copenhagen in the capital. And then I got a lot of different interesting corporate jobs. Learned a lot. Until ten years ago, where I got fired. And that was actually not the first time I got laid

[00:05:18] off.

[00:05:20] Mette: Because it seemed also that I was a person that, I've never been very good, you know, political, in corporate

[00:05:28] Rosie: settings. Sounds like you're

[00:05:29] Mette: a terrible employee. I am too. If I have, uh, if I have, um, you know, my, my freedom, I'm a really good, excellent employee because I, I, I can. You know, create a lot and I can create movements, get people to come along, to think along with me.

[00:05:52] Not like me, but along with me. I like that. so 10 years ago, I got laid off And I was so tired of corporate. So I started my own company not really knowing what that should be all about. but I got, a golden handshake. So I, hired someone to make a nice website. It's so easy, you know, with the words.

[00:06:14] and the first job I actually got was to go to China and help a huge. Chinese company, starting, a science park, that could attract, entrepreneurs from Europe. and then, you know, when you run your own company, you need to be a little practical, making sure that the cash flow is okay.

[00:06:33] So I was also approached by a headhunter who asked me whether I would like to work for him. And I said, okay, I didn't really know what, what it was all about. So I said, okay, three days a week. and you know, when you work as a headhunter, you only earn money when you have your clients, your own clients.

[00:06:54] so, I actually got to see that it was really a very boring job, but I got the chance to meet with a lot of different, laid off leaders. all levels, I saw that they all, they were looking for a new title, and they had always been hired to be the answer to, an already, formulated question or problem.

[00:07:17] Yes, yeah. And they also, were not very good in actually communicating, what they knew. So I thought, okay, I want to help them enlarge a little their network, which was huge, but very narrow. So I invited them into, startup companies in advisory boards and in board context, in general.

[00:07:45] And then I started to teach them how to ask questions. You know, when you get a good question is very often you will say, okay, that's a very good question. And then you have to reflect. Because you cannot just, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, what you normally do, you need to think, you need to reflect, and to ask those very good questions that make people think you need to know something, and you need to have a feeling about something out there.

[00:08:17] so I started to do that, and then I also started to be a ghostwriter for a lot of those, clients. because when I asked them what they did, I called someone. They were not very good in the process. they had always been very focused on the result, but not on the path to the result.

[00:08:38] Yeah. But if you want to engage people, you need to show them the path that they could take, if they also wanted to, create some results.

[00:08:49] so, and, and I wrote a book about that. then I started to see that a lot of those people, men and women, had a lot of concerns about whether they had been successful.

[00:09:01] Mette: regardless of how much they had achieved. I started to be very curious about our thinking and the, the emotions that we have, the feelings that we have. And I dived into that. I've been working on that for five, six years now and wrote a book. the tipping point, because I wanted to, help people see that we have thoughts, but we are not our thoughts.

[00:09:33] We have around 60, thoughts a day, and we have, there's no emotion that arise in our bodies that has not been generated by us. a thought. And when we believe that we are not good enough and we can feel it in our stomach or where it is in our bodies, that can vary from person to person, it's because we in the present moment believe something to be true that is not true.

[00:10:12] But we don't know it's not true because we can feel it.

[00:10:15] Yeah.

[00:10:16] Mette: And because we can feel it, we think, okay, then it must be true. And then we, engage even more into this thinking. Because, wow, I'm onto something. Regardless of how much, you know, pressure that puts on us, and how much stress and maybe even depression that we will, live.

[00:10:41] but what I found out was that, Every time we have a feeling that is stressful, which is not gentle or kind to us, it's because we believe something to be true. And not only that, but also that it defines who we are. So that is also a reason why it's so difficult for us to let go.

[00:11:08] Because without this feeling, okay, I'm a victim. That means that we are something. But if we let go of that, then what, what are we? So it's better to have this stone in the shoe and keep on, feeling this pain, than let go because then we have nothing.

[00:11:33] But that's not true. Because when we let go of this stone, of this belief, we get to see that then we are in peace.

[00:11:45] Rosie: It's such a unique way of looking at it, I really want to hear you unpack this more. So,

[00:11:56] we think things are true and they are true to us, right? But you're saying actually they're untrue and yet we're walking around with this stone in our shoe. We're hurting ourselves because the unknown or having nothing there is, I guess, so terrifying.

[00:12:12] Are you saying all feelings aren't true?

[00:12:16] Mette: I say that all feelings that generate stress in your life are not true. Wow.

[00:12:24] Rosie: Okay.

[00:12:26] Mette: So, so for instance,

[00:12:28] Rosie: I got fired and, um,a lot of my clients, they come here and then the first meeting they tell me that, it was an agreement between them and the board. and then they have a lot of stories around that. And then next meeting, they come and, after a little,maybe half an hour, they tell me no, actually, I got fired.

[00:12:55] Mette: And because the other story that they are telling themselves is that I got fired, maybe because I was not good enough. He didn't like me. They were not happy about my results. There were a lot of stuff around the firing thing. then they also need to kind of, keep on putting layers on the story around that they had been laid off, because they believe that if they don't do that, then they will be, fired because they were not good enough.

[00:13:34] But actually, after a little while, they get to see that, you know, Very often people are not laid off, because they're not good enough. they have added the value they should there, and they have been taught what they should be taught there. and then there's a new, person in the board who wants to set his own team or her own team.

[00:14:00] and that's that. Actually, very often it has nothing personal to do with to do. But we believe it. Yes. We take it personally. We do. and, and very often, very many people, they, they had seen it coming for a little while. they had not been very happy for a little while. They had been starting dreaming about something else.

[00:14:26] And many, leaders, especially maybe in my part of the world, when they are laid off, they get a lot of money actually. they don't need to work and they, get their money every month. so they can paint the house and run a marathon or whatever. so what is really the problem here?

[00:14:46] Is it the problem that I've been fired and now I've got a whole year free, full paid? Or is it the story I tell myself about I'm being fired? We tell ourselves so many stories. Yeah. And, and this is one thing, and another thing would be that, okay, someone who has been working in corporate and, she wants really to do something else.

[00:15:14] Ah, I'm, I'm maybe 40 and, ah, it's too, I'm too old. even though I really wanted to start my own company and I have this little idea, but it's just a little idea, come on, how can I build up something? And then, you know, a lot of. around what I really want. And after a little while, I have succeeded in, telling myself that I shouldn't do what I really want to do.

[00:15:40] Yeah. And I have not yet started.

[00:15:44] Rosie: Why do we do that?

[00:15:46] Um,

[00:15:47]

[00:15:48] Mette: because we believe our thoughts. Um, one thing, one thought takes another thought. And, we don't have kind of, we have not been taught to stop up and to look at what's going on up here in our heads. because it feels so valid, I can feel it, my heart beats and I sweat and also because we believe that life is.

[00:16:17] What happens around us, externally, but life does, life is how you perceive it, how you think about it.

[00:16:34] You know, there are around, I don't know, six billion people on the earth. And then there's also six billion historians.

[00:16:46] But we actually think that my story looks very much like yours and that we see things the same way. Because actually, oh, this is a book. But do you see the same book as I see?

[00:17:07] Rosie: I wouldn't say

[00:17:07] Mette: yes. I'm not sure. Yeah. But if we believe it, then you will react in one way, and because I believe you to have the same image like me, and then you may act in a totally different way than I would have done.

[00:17:31] So actually, then I would maybe think, Oh, my God, she's very impolite. Oh, is she stupid or? and it's because I'm not aware of that. When we meet reality out there, we meet it through the story. We tell ourself about reality. and because, you know, our body is an amazing app. It tells us all the time about the quality of our thinking.

[00:18:03] If you start to become a little aware of what's going on in your body, Was it because I, I lifted something very heavy? Or was it because I, I just had to again talk with my mom and convince her that what I'm doing is really okay? Um, maybe you will go with the heavy lifting thing, but maybe it was something else.

[00:18:33] A belief about something in the concrete moment. And then there's another thing if you wanted to, you know, if we should unfold it even more. It's that, that we are never really present, either we are in the past or in the future. But the past doesn't exist. It, word past, it's, and then the future doesn't exist either, because it's not yet there.

[00:19:04] So the only thing that exists is actually you and me now, here, nothing else.

[00:19:13] And that the next small moment would be created from this moment that you and I, we have here. But if we are never really present. then this, existence will pass very fast.

[00:19:30] Rosie: Yeah. And yet so

[00:19:32] many of us obsess over the past, or we ruminate. You know, especially, you know, you mentioned your twin brother, Kim, died very suddenly.

[00:19:45] And you could choose to live in the past. You know, you loved your brother dearly. So if you're comfortable talking about it, I'm really curious to hear your take on how grief fits into this, because I lost my dad in an accident also, I was 21 and then lost mom a few years later. And grief is something,

[00:20:11] for me, I feel like it never really did. Goes away it Changes, but I want to hear your take because as you talk about the past and the future the present the stories We're telling ourselves. I want to know how you see it

[00:20:30] Mette: Grief it's in It's a very you know

[00:20:36] I've always said that grief is like, you know homeless, homeless, homeless love. Where to put your love?

[00:20:46] Rosie: Yeah.

[00:20:47] Mette: Suddenly. But actually, over the years, I've been pondering about, maybe I didn't really lost anyone. If I can only be happy if my brother was here,

[00:21:12] would I then, you know, be

[00:21:16] so grateful for life that I

[00:21:21] should, maybe not should, but, you know, the biggest gift we have been given, it is being born. And if if life should look a certain way for me to be happy, maybe that is not how it's supposed to be. Kim, he was here almost 23 years, together with me, and what a gift. Yeah. and My parents are very old and my mom, she has dementia. so it's not always that she knows I'm her daughter. I'm this very lovely lady. But I think that behind the curtains, the noise, some, some part of her soul knows I'm her I'm not going to say that it's easy, but I have a hunch that I'm onto something that is kind of universal, valid, that when we get to see that all the gifts that we are given. Like the birth of you, and your mom and dad, and what you had together, and my brother, and all the other people around me.

[00:22:54] and that, that's enough. And, and when we reach that point, I think that maybe that's the biggest gift we can give to our loved ones. That, that we can be here, and experience this incredible time on Earth, Earth School, because they have added something to us. So, so, so grief is maybe just a little to, to, to help us remember, um, um, we

[00:23:36] have a

[00:23:38] Mette: gift.

[00:23:43] Rosie: Yeah. You've been given a gift. Um, I haven't heard it put that way before, and I think it's beautiful.

[00:23:51] Mette: Hmm.

[00:23:54] Rosie: Hmm. That's, that's given me a lot of food for thought. Grief is, it's not simple, right? And just to hear you talk through that, it just, it gives me. Goosebumps. I'm very hot and sweaty, but it gives me goosebumps.

[00:24:14] But yeah, I think framing it as a gift is, that's powerful. And I, I, I do believe that it's a, it was a tough lesson for me, you know, losing parents and for you, I'm sure with your brother, but you're right. The time I had with him, it was such a gift. I only wish in the past I saw it as a gift, but you know what?

[00:24:40] I can't ruminate on that because I'm just going to get stuck in that loop. And I think it can turn into this negative feedback loop.

[00:24:48] What is your advice for people if they, they're aware they're stuck in this negative loop? Their thoughts. How do they get out of that? Can they get out of that?

[00:25:02] Mette: Become aware of that, that you have thoughts, that you are not your thoughts. It's a little like the clouds in the sky, they come and go. And when it's really clouded, you know, still above the clouds, there's a blue sky.

[00:25:20] So, so when we let go, don't, don't get attached to it. Even though that you may feel very comfortable about feeling, being a victim of whatever, of your own story. in your own story. But you can also be the hero. Yeah. but actually, you know, don't get attached. Let go. See it as a cloud. Okay. Let it pass.

[00:25:49] because you are not your thoughts. You're not your emotions or feelings. You have emotions, feelings, and you have thoughts. But you are the one who absurd, you know, you're the consciousness.

[00:26:02] Watching what's going on. And that has never left you. From the age of five years to today, thus, you know, your cells have been renewed many times and nothing's left from that time to this time now. Your, the consciousness, you observing lands on your plate, that is still the same. You may pay attention to different things, but it's still the same.

[00:26:40] secure in, in, in that, that there's something in you that is not broken, that, that has not been damaged, even though that you may have, you know,

[00:26:58] experienced a lot of different things. and that's another thing which is rather good because, you know, I also have been talking with really, you know, sexual abused women and from their childhood. they, where they are today,

[00:27:22] in the moment, no one is taking advantage of them. They are okay. So when they let go of their stories, what they have experienced maybe 20 years ago. They can from time to time, if they want to, they can look at it, but it's in the past.

[00:27:50] Rosie: This is such a different way of looking at things to how we've been conditioned, I suppose.

[00:27:58] I've always thought, of course I'm my thoughts and my feelings, who, who else am I? And I think a lot of people are probably like, huh? And you mentioned consciousness and I want to understand this more. Is consciousness what some people refer to as intuition or your inner knowing? Is that the same thing or is it a bit different?

[00:28:21] Mette: It's a little different. We have thoughts which is generated in our mind, and then we have the consciousness that is kind of observing everything. Um,and your intuition is kind of also based upon, what has been filled into you over time. Consciousness is not really judging anything, it's just observing.

[00:28:53] Intuition is, lead you in certain ways. So when it leads you, it also makes sure that there is a path you may not take if you are listening. But consciousness is, um, It's just an, uh, now and here capability of being

[00:29:22] Rosie: the observer. So how do we tap into that? I think a lot of us have lost touch with it.

[00:29:30] Mette: Being

[00:29:30] Rosie: still,

[00:29:33] Mette: we are so busy, running, being on, you know, mobile phone.

[00:29:41] so being still. But a lot of people, they are afraid of being still. Yes. Because then, wow, then we get to maybe feel stuff that we don't want to feel or think about, you know, the past that we don't.

[00:30:05] Mette: But when we become still and conscious and

[00:30:14] see that we don't need to hold on to anything, Just observe it. Don't judge it. Just be and see. and when that becomes a part of how we are here in the world, then nothing, like nothing, will be a problem.

[00:30:44] Rosie: So a lot of my listeners, they're in sort of the 40 plus year age bracket. So usually by that age, you've been through some things, right? Yeah. Good and bad. And they might be listening and going, huh, this is new. So how did they, like, what do they do with all those stories and things that have happened to them in the past?

[00:31:10] Because obviously, they've happened. We acknowledge that. How did they, how did, what were you calling it earlier, let go so that they can be more present?

[00:31:23] Mette: Becoming aware. Because we almost all the time we are on cruise control. Yeah. Mentally. So we have been become so used to this stone in the shoe that we almost do not really feel it. Yeah. And we think it's maybe also quite normal. so it's this open mind. Don't really believe what I'm saying, but test it out for yourself.

[00:31:56] Yeah.

[00:31:56] Mette: Try in your every day. life, you know, stop up. I got this feeling in my stomach. I got angry, or shameful, or in the moment just before I had this feeling, what was it that I believed? Okay. Oh, I believed my husband is maybe doing something on the side.

[00:32:20] Okay, can I be 100 percent sure about that?

[00:32:24] Because he came late? No, no. Without this feeling or this thought, what is the problem? Oh, nothing. Maybe I should make two cup of coffee and go in and hear what's the problem in the office. So, so when we become aware of, can feel ourself and that we are not afraid of feeling ourself, be curious about what happened just before I got this emotion.

[00:33:06] Rosie: Yeah.

[00:33:07] Mette: Because feelings, they generate, you know, reactions in your body. Stress, for instance, we often say my boss is, making a mess out of me.

[00:33:23] Yeah.

[00:33:23] Mette: Or my husband, or my whatever, my kids, my mother in law, whatever, but actually no one can hurt me, except me. So when I feel hurt, it's because of my story about reality, and without my story about reality, what's the problem?

[00:33:45] And then we start to look at things differently. We look at people differently. It can be that, she didn't say hello when she entered this morning in the office. There's nothing to do with me. So without this story, maybe she's not happy with my job. Then I can make two cup of coffee and I can go in and I can knock on her door and say, has it been a tough morning for you?

[00:34:13] My God, my kids, my husband, my bike, my, I have made an extra cup of coffee. I thought, okay, maybe it would be nice for you.

[00:34:22] I just wrote a small article about, you know, when we are worrying, to worry about everything. I don't know if, soMetteime when I ask my husband if he's worried, he's never really worried, but then I'm worried for both of us. And then, sometimes, we tend to make worrying equal love.

[00:34:56] So when I worry about you, it's because really I love you. I want to be sure that everything is fine and you're okay and boom, boom. but that's also a story we just tell ourselves. Because to worry has nothing to do with love.

[00:35:15] So when we start to become aware of what's going on, and then ask questions, Can I be sure about what I'm believing now?

[00:35:27] And then we are very much, worrying about the future, future problems. But the funny part is that all problems, they will always be solved in the present moment. If I'm worrying about a problem tomorrow, that may or may not arise. I cannot solve it now. I can just solve it when it's, in front of me.

[00:35:59] we are so busy, trying to do stuff that doesn't make sense. But we believe it makes sense because again, we can feel it.

[00:36:09] Rosie: Yeah.

[00:36:11] Mette: So actually life in its inner essence, It's very, very simple. But we make it so complicated.

[00:36:22] And in the present moment, everything is okay. It is actually.

[00:36:35] Rosie: Yeah. that makes me think, you know, when my mum was dying, she was in palliative care and aged care for a time. It's a horrible time seeing my mother die at such a young age. But. But being present, it was also so beautiful spending this time with her and I could see it as a

[00:36:57] disaster or a tragedy to see her deteriorate and sort of return to her childlike self and me, her daughter caring for her. But there's also beauty in that. And I think staying present really helped me not thinking of the future. When she's inevitably gonna die and I'm gonna have to organize the funeral and do this and do that and look after my sister That's not helpful.

[00:37:26] Mette: No. Hmm and actually in the present moment Even your mom she was okay

[00:37:33] I'm

[00:37:33] Mette: sure that she got a lot of pain and she was taken care of and you by her side holding her hand She was safe

[00:37:44] And

[00:37:45] Mette: and that's another thing that You know, very often we say, okay, like my brother, you know, he died too young. Did he? I actually believe that he, he lived a full life.

[00:38:05] My, my great grandmother, she became 101 year old. a full life. But if we think something is wrong, which is

[00:38:19] reality, then we have to deal both with what we think is wrong and with reality. So then we will be really busy. All that energy that we spend on something that we believe to be true, which is not true. instead of being present and spending all our energy and our focus on being together with your mom, singing for her, reading for her, holding her hand like, but my mom, you know, that's interesting also with dementia.

[00:38:59] she actually had a, some stories that, before her dementia, that could make her very angry with certain people. But now, she has forgot those stories. So now she just thinks that those people, they're very nice people.

[00:39:21] so when we get to see that we don't need to believe everything we think, then our life will become much kinder.

[00:39:32] Rosie: Oh, yeah, much kinder.

[00:39:33] Mette: And nothing really to be afraid of, because when I know that I meet you, not in my picture of you, meaning myself, but that I'm, still in my head, and I can be curious about you.

[00:39:49] I can learn about you. It's not about you judging me, or me judging you, it's. Learning. Be curious. Mmm.

[00:40:00] Rosie: This is such a philosophical conversation and I don't think I have actually ever had a conversation about this. So it's all, I'm gonna get off this call and just be in a head spin. This is a lot to grapple with and I,

[00:40:16] Mette: I

[00:40:18] Rosie: don't even know where I stand on some of it, but I hear it and inside I'm like, huh, that makes sense.

[00:40:26] That makes sense.

[00:40:27] Mette: I think that being curious about where it leads you.

[00:40:30] Rosie: Mm.

[00:40:31] Mette: it's not about, okay, it's made what she's saying. Is that correct or is whatever do, do I agree with her or not? Mm-hmm. It's, it's much more, you know, where does it lead you? Um,

[00:40:43] I, I'm, I'm not, you know, it, it's where I am and what I can see. And actually I believe it counts for everyone. I'm not so special so it only counts for me. It counts for all of us. I have three kids. Ingeborg, she's 23. Joachim is 26. And Benedikte, she's 28. and I have taught them about this and talked so much about this that now they start to also have a sense of okay.

[00:41:23] I don't need to, you know, put myself down in a small corner

[00:41:27] believing something that doesn't make me feel good. And then they let go of it much faster. Um, and it's not like I never, you know, also, uh, I can forget and then I also can become upset. For the time being, for instance, I don't read newspapers because What's going on in the United States, what's going on in Russia, Ukraine, Palestina, Israel.

[00:42:01] So sometimes we just need to, you know, the noise out there, they have to, they have to deal with it themselves. and then when I'm not in war with myself, there's one less war in the world. Ah, when I'm not

[00:42:19] Rosie: at war with myself, there's one less war in the world. Yeah. Wow. We don't need all those.

[00:42:28] Isn't that true? We don't. Yeah. Absolutely not. But how confronting for people to hear that they have a choice. Essentially we're saying that they are choosing, maybe not, they're probably not aware of it, but they are choosing. They,

[00:42:43] Mette: they, it's very innocent. They don't, they're not aware of it. Yeah. So it's not the, like, you know, uh, it's because they're not aware of it.

[00:42:53] I was not aware of it either, years ago, until I start, when I believe my thoughts, I have problem with my stomach, and when I don't believe my thoughts, I'm okay. And who don't want to be okay, and peaceful. I actually think that that is what we all, you know, long for. We just don't know exactly how to

[00:43:25] do it, feel it.

[00:43:27] Rosie: Right! It sounds like, if I'm to pull together some of the things you've said, it's really important to become aware of it, and consciousness, and just, oh, there's a thought, there's a feeling. That's interesting. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. You know, thinking of them like clouds, like you said, and the blue sky is always there behind them.

[00:43:52] Mette: Yeah, oh, also, you can also look at it as a, you know, teenager.

[00:43:58] Send him to his room. Sharp, firm, and with love. And if it's so important to, you know, Find, find this thought again. Just go up and look at it if you want to. It's If it's, you know, you can, you can look at it from time to time if you feel you need to. Yeah, yeah. But, but you know, when you start to see like that, then, then you can go.

[00:44:30] The room. And then after a little while you start to laugh. No, no, no, no, no. actually I'm, I'm a little surprised that, um, that not more people have, have, have got it. Have seen it. Have felt it.

[00:44:51] Why do you think that is? I'm curious.Maybe because they think that it's, it's too easy. It cannot be like that. Yeah. it must be very complicated.

[00:45:03] But

[00:45:05] Mette: it's not complicated. But it's complicated because we make it complicated. Right. Yeah. But when we see it, you know, take all the layers off, all the noise, all the stories, what we believe to be true, and that hurts us.

[00:45:23] and that not only hurts us, we believe also it's who we are. So if, if this kind of evaporates, who I am, and that can also maybe be very, you know, scaring for some.

[00:45:44] Rosie: Definitely. Yeah.

[00:45:45] Mette: Now I have been this victim for 30, 40 years and without that label, who am I? I'm the one who have had interesting. You know, stuff on my plate, dealt with it, and now I'm someplace else.

[00:46:09] Rosie: And I actually think this whole discussion ties in nicely with the question I'm about to ask you, which is something I pose to all of my guests. And that is, what does freedom mean to you?

[00:46:25] Mette: To be present.

[00:46:27] Mm.

[00:46:30] Mette: To be present.

[00:46:31] Rosie: Simple as that.

[00:46:34] Mette: Because that is actually the only place where we are free.

[00:46:39] Rosie: Yes. And that's actually a lesson I've been learning since moving into my van. with each day, I'm learning more and more how to be present. And I just feel so content with life, just very at peace, and for once okay with just seeing where things are going.

[00:47:03] It's not, Oh, I've got to rush here. I've got to do that. I've got to achieve this. It's just, this is an adventure. This. Yeah, exactly. It's just being.

[00:47:13] Mette: that doesn't mean that we are not, serious people and ambitious I actually think that we become much better leaders.

[00:47:21] Parents, uh, colleagues, uh, friends, um, uh, because we, we, we are at peace.

[00:47:33] Rosie: Yeah. What more could

[00:47:35] you want? Mm. Thank you so much for this conversation. Ah, thank you poor thing have had to be looking at me, dripping sweat onto the laptop and all over the place, but it's, I feel sorry for anyone who watches this on YouTube, but this conversation.

[00:47:56] You are beautiful. Thank you. This conversation has been beautiful, actually. And thank you. I want to re listen to it and just take it all in. It has been an absolute delight to speak to you. And I'm so, so thankful for your generosity with your time and your wisdom.

[00:48:19] If there's one final thing you want to leave with the listeners, what would that be?

[00:48:25] Mette: Don't believe everything you think.

[00:48:27] Rosie: Mm. Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you too.

[00:48:33]