49: Grabbing the male underwear industry by the balls - Saara Jamieson's fertility and entrepreneurship story

[00:00:00] Rosie: G'day, and welcome to the Pursuit of Freedom podcast. I'm your host, Rosie Burrows, and I'm on a journey to find my freedom so that I can help you do exactly the same. Join me each week as I share the stories of everyday people who've found their own path to freedom.

[00:00:18] I'm not going to focus on job titles and accolades because I don't care about that stuff. And neither should you. I want to uncover what truly makes you tick. Who are you when you step away from society's expectations and follow your heart? I still haven't figured it out yet. Have you? Either way, buckle up because it's going to be one hell of a ride.

[00:00:42] Welcome back to the Pursuit of Freedom podcast. Joining me today is the amazing Saara Jamieson. She is a Queensland girl like me. I love it. I think you are the fourth Aussie I've had on this podcast, so feel very lucky. There's not enough of us out there. So excited to have you on and for people listening, Saara is just.

[00:01:05] She's so out there. She's awesome. She's the founder and CEO of Cool Beans Underwear. And if you go on her website, it says that the goal of starting this company was to grab the male underwear market by the balls. And I love that so much. Right. And recently you've won a couple of awards at the Osmumpreneur awards.

[00:01:25] And also you were a finalist at the, the small business innovation award at the, I think it was the Australia post. Yeah. Australia

[00:01:32] Saara: post sponsored the Aureas. Uh, yeah, small business innovation. So that was quite a, quite a big, uh, big event. I was blown away. And even as a finalist, I got, I got a prize pack.

[00:01:45] So, you know, I was very excited with that, but yeah, to take out the gold in the Osmanpreneur social enterprise. It was just amazing. And I got to have my mother there, who's been my rock throughout this whole journey and who has believed in me and our product and to have her there and to actually see me win it, um, and see me cry,

[00:02:11] it was just an incredible event. And to, to just experience that with my mom, um, was just amazing. Fantastic. So I'm very excited.

[00:02:21] Rosie: Yeah. And I mean, it's been years in the making, but before I get you to dive into what Cool Beans underwear is, because that's going to be an awesome conversation, let's go back because you said, you know, your mum's been there all the way along.

[00:02:34] So what was it like growing up? From what I understand, you had a family business and you worked in there for several years. Like what was it like?

[00:02:42] Saara: Yes. So my mom's amazing. She's one of those women that everyone's just drawn to and she would give the shirt off her back if it meant she was helping someone, she's just the most beautiful person I've ever met.

[00:02:55] And to be able to call her my mother, you know, it makes me, I think probably the luckiest person, luckiest person alive. So mom and dad had their own business. They traveled all across Australia. Australia, across the Nullarbor, where we broke down, we were talking about pre show. So I've seen a lot of Australia, I traveled with them, um, I was absent for quite a bit of my primary schooling, which you're not allowed to do today, but the, my primary school teachers actually said, no, take her on the trip, you know, see, show her Australia.

[00:03:27] I know she's going to get so much out of that and I think I really did. My English and maths and writing may not be the best out of everyone, but the appreciation that I have for this country and the drive and determination that I got from my parents with them having their own business and seeing the sacrifices they made to ensure I had a better life.

[00:03:49] You know, that's priceless. And it has been a driving force for me with my business now moving through.

[00:03:58] Rosie: I mean, it sounds like you've had anything but a traditional upbringing. Yeah. And I love that so much.

[00:04:06] Saara: My mother always said I was her miracle child and I was put on this earth to do something great.

[00:04:12] She didn't know what it was, but she always believed. As far as long as I can remember, she always said you are my miracle child, you know, and you are, you've been put on this earth to do something amazing. I truly believe that and I can't wait to see. See what that miracle will be one day. Um, yeah, my mother had a procedure, so she couldn't have any more children, uh, but only one of her ovaries ever worked.

[00:04:35] So she got her one ovary tied after losing a child. And, uh, at 42, her ovary that never worked started to work. And I was destined to be here. Mom thought she was dying with cancer and, uh, ended up being pregnant. Wow.

[00:04:55] Rosie: Wow. Wow. What a story. Yeah. And I feel like this is a really good segue because, you know, your mom's fertility journey, I guess.

[00:05:03] And then let's segue into what cool beans underwear is and actually where it originated from. Because it sounds like. You know, quite a tongue in cheek name and, and fun and laughs, right? Which, yeah, it is, but I think there's a deeper meaning behind that. So let's hear it.

[00:05:19] Saara: Most definitely. Those who don't know me, um, I was a medical researcher at university.

[00:05:25] I did animal and veterinary bioscience. And so I had extensively studied fertility, reproduction, anatomy, physiology, thermoregulation in animals. But the physiology pretty much directly corresponds across to us. So when my husband and I started trying to conceive, I had my first miscarriage on my 29th birthday.

[00:05:46] And. It was then a journey from there. We, uh, we kept trying. I started seeing fertility doctors, getting advice. What do we do? Had it went through every type of medication, exploratory treatments, um, fertility treatments other than IVF. I always made that very well known that I never intended to go through IVF.

[00:06:10] If we weren't able to have children, the plan was to always adopt. But to help us on our journey, I said to my husband, well, Let's get some sperm optimizing underwear for you, some fertility underwear. Sperm health is so important and his sperm health, we got it tested and it was above average. But if you actually look at those numbers today, compared to where they were in the 1970s, when sperm health started to decline, they're not good.

[00:06:38] And so I said, let's get you some underwear. Let's optimize your sperm health. It's only going to enhance our chances of conception. To my dismay, it did not exist. And I'm like, how does this not exist? There's, am I missing something? Like, we know about testicular heat. We know about sperm health decline.

[00:06:58] Why is there nothing on the market that is helping men conceive? All there is at the moment is, um, some supplements and then actually going through medical, quite invasive medical procedures where they actually extract the sperm. That's essentially it. Um, there is not much that men can do to help couples on their journey.

[00:07:25] And so we've sort of spoken about what our Underwear would have to do, but we didn't progress it any further. And it wasn't until after my second miscarriage that I came home and found my husband sitting on the couch with an old pair of undies, some mosquito netting, trying to create something. And it's the most comical thing you'll ever see, but he was trying.

[00:07:47] He was so fed up that he couldn't contribute on our fertility journey and he was heartbroken as well. And that was the point that I realized. that my fertility journey wasn't mine, it was our journey. And he was as heartbroken as I was, that we weren't conceiving. Um, and I was on this tremendous rollercoaster ride of hormones and he was just heartbroken.

[00:08:15] He's his wife that he loves so much and he could do nothing to support her. So that's when I sort of stepped in. stepped in, did my medical research thing and did a deep dive into understanding male fertility, what are the issues with traditional underwear that we had to solve. And understanding that actually made it quite easy to create something practical that my husband wore.

[00:08:39] May not have been as comfortable as our underwear today, but it essentially did the same thing and was practical. And so he started wearing, uh, we had two garments, he wore them back to back, uh, to bed, as well as during the day, because it's very important to keep your testes cool also while you're sleeping.

[00:08:57] He wore them 24 7, and four months later, we actually conceived and carried to term with our now seven year old son, Van. And I also have now a five year old daughter, Heidi. Wow. That's where it's sort of all stemmed from, uh, but we still never intended to commercialize it. It was something that we developed as a necessity for us to conceive.

[00:09:22] And it wasn't until friends of family, friends of friends, um, patients from my obstetrician, they were starting to hear that we had conceived by producing this product and they were reaching out to us. And asking if we could develop something for them. And that's when we actually went, Hey, there's obviously a market here.

[00:09:42] There's a need. We needed it. We needed this. How about we take that risk and actually start working on this journey to help couples conceive and optimize. Global health, because people don't realize that sperm health isn't just about conception. It's one of the leading causes for women to have miscarriages

[00:10:05] and offspring health.

[00:10:07] Saara: So you look at our offspring today, there's a high incidence of anxiety, depression, disabilities in our children than ever before. And it can be stemmed back largely, not always, of course, but there is a correlation between sperm health and offspring health. And no one is talking about this and no one is doing anything to try and help enhance global population health and male fertility.

[00:10:38] If we don't act now, there are medical experts predicting by 2045, natural conception could almost be unheard of, unless you're trying to conceive in your very early 20s because sperm health is declining so rapidly.

[00:10:52] Rosie: Wow. Why do you think sperm health is declining so rapidly? Do we know?

[00:10:57] Saara: So, well, the part that we're working on is testicular heat, but there are microplastics, chemicals, even our food doesn't have the same nutritional properties that it once had.

[00:11:08] And these are all having a massive effect, but they're very difficult to combat. Even having your mobile phone in your pocket, that can give off radiation and. and heat. And so with CoolBeans underwear, it's all about keeping the testes cool. So we've actually now got almost worldwide patents for CoolBeans, which is super exciting.

[00:11:29] Wow. Congratulations. So fully patented, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, USA, and we're just choosing the countries for Europe at the moment.

[00:11:39] Rosie: So that's

[00:11:39] Saara: all super exciting. But we know that testicular heat has a massive impact. So the scientists have now shown that a male only needs to sit for 20 minutes on a padded office chair, and that is long enough to heat the testes to a point to stop sperm production and damage the already developed sperm.

[00:11:59] And if you're in a vehicle, you're looking at more like 12 to 13 minutes. Wow. And people are not talking about this. And this No. No, this is not stuff that we have done and worked out. You know, this is, these are from peer reviewed journal articles.

[00:12:16] And,

[00:12:17] Saara: but there's no solution for this. So why talk about the problem until now?

[00:12:25] Rosie: This is blowing my mind and I, I don't know any of this. And I remember when I first met you, oh my gosh, I was just like bright red. You were at, I think we're at, Was it a conference or something? I can't remember. You're at a stall and there's these, you know, basically naked male model model in this, these underwear, ripped six pack.

[00:12:45] And I went, Oh my God, I'm not going to that stall. Go the other direction. Curiosity got the better of me. We started a conversation and you're talking to me about testes and you know, sperm and this and that. And I'm gone, Whoa, who is this chick? And things started to change. We're still talking sperm and testes.

[00:13:04] Yeah. And I mean, how do people respond when you have these conversations? Cause you're really open and comfortable talking about it. But I feel like, yeah, society's getting more comfortable talking about these things, but I know from an educator's point of view, as an ex teacher, this stuff isn't really openly talked about in the classroom.

[00:13:22] No,

[00:13:23] Saara: it's not. And that's part of the problem. I, and. There is so much lack of knowledge out there, and what people perceive to be the true is actually, can be so detrimental to their fertility journey, but also to relationships. Uh, but me talking about it, I think I've just learned to, Talk about it. I believe in the product and we need to talk about it.

[00:13:49] We need to break the stigma. And you know what, everyone's going to have that one embarrassing friend. That's, you know, that whose mouth is just too big. It always puts their, what is it? Put their foot in their mouth. You know, I'll be that friend. That's okay. I'm okay owning that position now. Um, yeah,

[00:14:05] Rosie: and I think it's, you know, it's, it's probably going to sound cliche, but this stuff really can be life changing.

[00:14:13] And it's so simple, keeping your testes a bit cooler and there's massive benefits. So tell us more about the underwear, what makes them different? How does it keep the beans cool?

[00:14:25] Saara: Okay. This is them here. So internally, we've got a little slot here. So the testes go into this slot. So you can see my skin through here.

[00:14:41] So having this elasticized mesh pouch allows that easy dissipation of heat and sweat buildup. But the major issue that we're trying to combat is that when a man is seated, is that the testes fall between his thighs and get insulated from his thighs. So this now comes up. And attaches here to the waistband.

[00:15:01] And so what that does, it gently elevates the scrotum and brings it forward, placing the scrotum on his lap. So they're not getting insulated now by his thighs. Wow.

[00:15:11] Rosie: And how comfortable are these? Like how, what's the feedback you've got so far?

[00:15:17] Saara: The feedback was tremendous. So before we even launched, we ran a comfortability trial with 50 men not associated with the brand and all different sizes, shapes and sizes.

[00:15:30] And the biggest feedback we got is that men didn't realize how uncomfortable they were in their traditional underwear. Until they trialed an alternative, it does take three to four days, sometimes five days for men to get used to it because people become very aware of their anatomy. They can feel the cool, oh my scrotum, um, and there's now very aware of their bits being housed in the underwear.

[00:15:56] Um, but having it, everything housed nicely together and keeping the testes nice and cool, men are just loving it for the comfortability aspect. Everything's nicely kept in place. Men now have got all this free time with their hands. I don't know what to do with the hands. And uh, and yeah, so, but it does take, cause it is a whole new structural design of underwear.

[00:16:18] Men haven't experienced this before, so it does take a few days to get used to it. But once you get used to that new sensation, men are loving it. But one thing I forgot to say. is that it's super important to make sure the scrotum is supported. We want the scrotum to retract and extend how physiologically intended, but not overextend or be too confined up.

[00:16:42] So, our pouch here, this pouch actually comes in three different sizes. Like women's breasts, Scronums are also different sizes. And so not to confuse the small, medium and large pouch size with waist size and being an Australian invention, we've gone with marsupial names. We've got the quokka, the koala, quokka, koala, and the wombat pouch.

[00:17:04] Rosie: I love that so much. I love that. And I mean, that's something I've never heard of in other men's underwear.

[00:17:11] Saara: No, we are the only product globally that is, that's anything like this, and that is tackling the malfertility crisis as well as, uh, by keeping your testes cool, you're actually going to enhance your testosterone production as well.

[00:17:25] Rosie: Huh. Wow. So everyone really can benefit from these.

[00:17:29] Saara: That's right. Not just men

[00:17:31] Rosie: sort of on a fertility journey.

[00:17:33] Saara: No. So all men from adolescence, uh, will benefit from this underwear. And I've been asked by urologists to develop a, a child version as well, because we're now actually working with urologists for pre and post operative care as well.

[00:17:49] And so to actually help younger men or younger males, uh, who are going through some type of penile scrotal. surgery or anything in the groin area, uh, this product is actually very beneficial to aid in recovery. Also working with, uh, doctors for prostate cancer, testicular cancer now.

[00:18:08] Rosie: Um,

[00:18:10] Saara: and then also with some longevity coaches, because by optimizing your testosterone production, you're going to maintain your muscle retention as you age, increase libido.

[00:18:21] Uh, we're getting amazing reports on improvement in erections in older aged men. Um, as well as retaining their hair testosterone is so important, but it is highly impacted by testicular heat, which is also, we need to produce testosterone to be able to produce sperm.

[00:18:42] Rosie: They

[00:18:42] Saara: go hand in hand. This is blowing

[00:18:43] Rosie: my mind.

[00:18:44] Yeah. This is, this is fascinating. Did you ever imagine? Being at this stage, because you founded Cool Beans, was it 2021?

[00:18:53] Saara: It was.

[00:18:53] Rosie: So just a few years on, did you imagine it would be at this point?

[00:18:59] Saara: I knew we'd get there one day and I feel like we're now on the market and we're starting to build up some traction and starting to get that recognition.

[00:19:07] Um, I knew we'd get there, but to actually be here and living through it, it's amazing and it blows my mind every day. Um, where we're getting, where we're getting and to actually have it classified now as a medical device. I didn't know that if we were ever going to get that, uh, without having done the clinical trials.

[00:19:30] Unfortunately, clinical trials are a little bit out of my budget right now, but which is something that I think we did speak about quite a couple of years ago about, um, doing some clinical trials. I would love to get the clinical trials done, but there is so much research already done in understanding testicular heat, the insulating effect from the thighs, all of these aspects.

[00:19:54] And by having the patent, we'd be able to submit the patent as well as our literature review with all the scientific data to the TGA to actually then get our TGA registration as a medical device.

[00:20:08] Rosie: That's phenomenal. Underwear as a medical device. That is so damn cool.

[00:20:13] Saara: We are the first men's underwear medical device and the world's first and only testicular cooling medical device.

[00:20:19] Wow.

[00:20:20] Rosie: Wow. That's so cool. I just love it so much, Saara. And I mean, I want to, I want to pivot the conversation a bit because you've got all these awards and there's so many wins on the board, right? But being a founder, being an entrepreneur, it's not all smooth sailing, is it? Especially when you are launching, manufacturing, trying to sell a physical product.

[00:20:47] So what. What has that journey been like for you as an individual, but also as a mum, as a wife, as a friend?

[00:20:55] Saara: Uh, it has been, been one that has been very challenging to put it nicely, unless you really have true grit and determination, willing to never say no. Being an entrepreneur, especially in a physical device market is not for you.

[00:21:17] It is so challenging. Uh, I have had. Unfortunately, a few bad eggs in my basket with my manufacturer, uh, with my original accountant that set up my business structures, which I'm now getting sorted. And my biggest recommendation is always get a second opinion on In the, especially in the early days when you're not educated and you don't have the proper understanding.

[00:21:46] If I was to do it all over again today, I think it'd be so easy, but learning it on the, you know, as you go and not having a mental, not knowing that there were things called accelerator programs. Right. Um, and really trying to do it all myself and being so reliant on. The people around me, uh, and presuming that they are experts in their field and know what they're doing and they don't.

[00:22:15] Uh, is very detrimental. So, uh, so yeah, we're now fixing up our company structure. Um, my original accountant said this is how it has to be done. It's not, um, not when you've got IP and then a trading company and shares and Things like that. So we're now going through a full company restructure. My Australian Which isn't cheap,

[00:22:40] Rosie: I'm sure.

[00:22:41] Saara: No, it's not. It's not cheap first to set up a company and then to actually go through the legalities of restructuring, um, and all the tax implications. It's a challenging one, but you know, it can be done. If you're determined, fifth consultant, finally found someone that's, that, that can do it. And yeah, and then unfortunately I tried to be, have that sovereign capability, be Australian made, found an Australian manufacturer who ripped me off, produced a bunch of product that's unusable and essentially.

[00:23:19] book money that I'd pay for invoices, to pay his own invoices. And so that was awful and such an awful experience. And now trying to, you know, what legal case do I have, you know, to work, to work that out. And as a startup founder, you don't have much capital like to then just. Lose that money. It's challenging.

[00:23:43] Thankfully I had a good runway, uh, because I then did go through the process of finding a new manufacturer. We found an amazing company that I love using in Vietnam, but they're easy to deal with. They're so fast. The quality, oh my goodness, the quality compared to the Australian manufacturer is just amazing.

[00:24:04] I can't fault them, like, there's been a lot of learning curves for them as well. Uh, producing kill beans is very, it's a very technical garment to make.

[00:24:11] Rosie: Mm

[00:24:12] hmm.

[00:24:12] Saara: And so it's not cheap to make, uh, for me. People always comment about the cost of kill beans. And so that whole process of finding a new manufacturer, then getting new stock on the Shelves, I meant I didn't have stock for a bit over a year.

[00:24:29] And so then still having all the overheads of patent applications and all the other overheads that come with just operating a business, um, unfortunately has tuned up most of my runway. And, but now we're, no, we've got product, we're back on the market. I've got two distributors and we're getting more and more sales every week.

[00:24:51] And it's super exciting and yeah, like I was telling you before the show that I was speaking to somebody last night and they were at a conference and actually there was a urologist presenting at this conference talking about CoolBeans and how they need to be using CoolBeans as a pre and post operative care device for their patients for urological surgeries, which I had no idea about.

[00:25:14] And so. To start getting that industry feedback, uh, without me even going to them and saying, you know, I see you're presenting at this conference. Are you aware of this? Without me even doing the legwork, you know, that, that, that's

[00:25:29] Rosie: phenomenal.

[00:25:30] Saara: Medical professionals now talking about it. So, which is super exciting.

[00:25:36] Rosie: I'm so glad you're getting some more wins on the board, because I'm sure when shit was hitting the fan, all these things going wrong, like, why didn't you just walk away? Sounds awful to me. I'm going, holy fuck. I don't know if I'd have the grit to just keep going. I'd have a tantrum, a hissy fit and go, fuck this.

[00:25:54] Saara: I really One, too invested, financially invested. Uh, it's cost us a fortune to get to this stage. Um, I think our patents have probably cost about 350, 000. I've had to rebuttal the U. S. patent four times.

[00:26:12] Rosie: Wow.

[00:26:13] Saara: Um, so we put an application, they approved everything that we put in our application, and then they said, came back with, actually, there are these other patents that are.

[00:26:24] Not similar, but look at these. And then we rebuttal all of those. And then they went out looking for more problems. And then we rebuttaled all of those and they, again, they just kept trying to find more and more issues of why Mm-Hmm. , not to give me the patent, but then we finally went through to an interview process and we got You got it.

[00:26:48] Yeah. To have that US patent now is huge. And so we've just got that through sort of the last. Uh, four weeks and got the European one through. About two months ago, three months ago now. And so we actually got all the patents that we applied for fully registered now. And now it's, well, what's the next step?

[00:27:10] What's our, our real go to market plan to start having the biggest impact that we can have.

[00:27:17] Rosie: Mm. So for people who aren't familiar with the kind of entrepreneurial startup journey and, and the patent world and the importance of that, can you share with people, like, why is a patent so important and why have you spent all this money on it?

[00:27:32] Saara: Uh, so essentially it stops people from just copying your product. You're totally always going to ignore China. They're going to do what they want to do, but you want to essentially patent your product where you want to go to market. So if I didn't have the US patent, someone in China could manufacture, copy my, my design, that's, you know, not that difficult, you know, just need to buy a pair of undies and you've got the design pretty much, and then they could then take it to the US and, and sell it there and just call it, you Something else that they could essentially then just completely replicate the design and just call it something else and sell it in those markets.

[00:28:13] I'm just

[00:28:14] Rosie: thinking of like fidget spinners, right? You know how, you know, that would just everywhere, everybody's making them and all, all the things that would just be a disaster, wouldn't it? To see your, you know, your hard work, it's not go to waste, but just be taken advantage of like that. Exactly. So it's so important that intellectual property is so important to protect.

[00:28:35] Um, Yeah,

[00:28:36] Saara: in those early days before we got the patents, you know, trying to talk to people and not give too much away about the business and the design of it until we got, you know, NDAs all signed with all parties. And yeah, you do need to be very careful, especially when you're, yeah, when you're working with externals to your company, you just, you don't know who you can trust.

[00:29:03] Um, I really thought my Australian manufacturer was. This amazing person and company. I trusted him and I, he kept letting me down, but I'm like, no, he's a good person. You know, we're going to get through it. I believe in, you know, everything. And then it's just lie after lie after lie. And you keep giving them the benefit for benefit of the doubt.

[00:29:32] And that's something. I just don't tolerate today. It's, uh,

[00:29:37] Rosie: feel me once,

[00:29:38] Saara: shame on me, feel me twice, shame on you. You know the saying. My husband always gives me a hard time about sayings. I keep trying to use them and I always stuff them up.

[00:29:51] Rosie: I stuff them up. Yeah. I've had similar lessons. I mean, not on a larger scale, but I'm a very, you know.

[00:29:57] Naturally trusting and generous person and believing, you know, believe the best in people, see the best. And I recently got burnt on a, on a project I did with a client, thought, you know, didn't get a formal contract signed, Saara.

[00:30:14] Um,

[00:30:15] Rosie: tens of thousands of dollars at stake here just because they've decided to be a dickhead.

[00:30:20] So it's, it's important, right? Yeah. Be generous, be a good person, but you got to protect yourself.

[00:30:26] Saara: You do. Especially when it comes to money and being a startup where you're bootstrapping it and you know, you've taken out your own loans to fund this. Um, yeah, to just have it taken away and people be awful people to you, it's heartbreaking.

[00:30:52] And it's like, I just can't imagine how people could be like that. But unfortunately, not everyone is as nice as you and I, Rosie. Um. I know.

[00:31:05] Rosie: It sucks. I feel like it's a lesson I constantly learn, but how, how do you cope with that? Because I imagine you would have gone to a pretty dark place, or at least I would have, going through that.

[00:31:16] You know, you think, okay, having Australian made, like it's really ethical and it's going to be high quality and then just totally backfired. And

[00:31:24] Saara: I got the Australian made. Registration and was paying for all of that and all my branding materials. So all my big banners and everything has got Australia made on it.

[00:31:35] So I can't use any of that additional collateral. Um, yeah, I think it's, you just be smarter for next time you look at what's the next thing you have to achieve. What's the next thing? What's the next big thing on your to do list and how are you going to get through this? Um, what's the strategy moving forward?

[00:31:59] Look forward, not back. Yeah, that's always my strategy.

[00:32:06] Rosie: How do you not let fear take over? That's a big one for me.

[00:32:11] Saara: Yes. Thanks. Fear, um,

[00:32:19] a chamomile cup of teas?

[00:32:23] Um, no, you know, I, I, I am a bit of an adrenaline junkie, I'd say, you know, I've done baited shark dives, you know, I go out multi day hikes on my own, um, my husband's Nana almost killed me. She's like, what are you doing hiking on your own and doing multi day hikes and, you know, I've always been a bit of a risk taker and I think you need to have that mentality.

[00:32:53] If you're not a risk taker, naturally, it's going to be very challenging for you. You can be strategic risk taker, and I may lack a little bit sometimes in the strategic part. But I think it's just knowing when you believe in the product. And to have market and industry validation now,

[00:33:18] Rosie: um,

[00:33:19] Saara: if we didn't have that validation, maybe we might have bowed out earlier on, but, you know, we're living proof of us being able to conceive, you know, I tried for three and a half years to conceive.

[00:33:34] And suffered multiple miscarriages, and I tried everything to try and fall pregnant other than IVF, and nothing was working. I just kept miscarrying. And so, you know, I'm a living testament of, What Cool Beans did for us and what people don't realize is that 70 percent of male infertility is reversible through lifestyle factors.

[00:34:03] 70%? 70%.

[00:34:06] Wow.

[00:34:07] Saara: And so, you know, it's not obviously going to work for everyone if you've got, you know, proper anatomical genetic issues, you know, maybe you've had cancer and gone through radiation, you know, there are going to be circumstances. Cool beans is not going to work for you. But in 70 percent of people, you're likely to have a big change in your sperm health.

[00:34:29] And it's not just about being able to conceive. It's about trying to create a healthier child. You want your child to have this healthy, fulfilling, long life, and that's not happening. More and more to more couples, you know, and there's, so why not give every opportunity you can to give your child best chance of life.

[00:35:00] And it all starts with testicular heat and your nutrition, stop drinking, stop smoking. And you only have to do this for three months. In three months, three months is how long it takes for sperm or it's actually a bit less than three months to fully develop. And so wearing cool beans is going to start having an impact, you know, within a week because it's now testicular heat also damages the already matured sperm, but then if you can continue wearing it.

[00:35:32] Consistently, for three months, you're going to be then giving that new sperm the best chance to be optimized and be as healthy as possible. And the healthier the sperm is, the higher the chance of conception is, reducing miscarriages and creating healthy babies. It's amazing. It's like, connect the dots.

[00:35:54] People aren't connecting the dots, they think sperm health and conception and there's no more impact. Um, and that's not the case. It's

[00:36:02] Rosie: often the, the infertility kind of journeys and the struggles that are spoken about are very often focused on the woman. And I mean, I might have that wrong because I haven't got the experience there, but that's just as an outsider.

[00:36:16] It very much seems to be focused on that side, which is valid and really important. But what about all the future dads out there?

[00:36:23] Saara: Exactly. Well, male fertility now accounts for 50 percent of all infertility cases. It's a 50 50 split and, um, but there's been, I don't understand why no one has developed something functional and practical.

[00:36:40] I know researchers have been trying to create something since the seventies when sperm health started to decline. So in 1970, the average male had 99 million sperm in one mil of ejaculate. Today that number is closer to 20 million.

[00:36:57] Rosie: 99

[00:36:59] Saara: to 20 million. Wow. And you need to have over 15 million to be classified as fertile and to be able to conceive.

[00:37:10] Wow. And so, people have been trying to develop something since the 70s and, you know, they even invented for office workers because they knew about testicular heat. They invented, um, This machine that they would actually have in the office next door, and then, because it was so noisy, and run pipes through the door to the desk, and you'd be able to put hose pipes down your jocks to blow air on your testes and try and keep them cool.

[00:37:39] I

[00:37:40] Rosie: think this is the perfect example. Innovation doesn't have to be complicated. So whilst you're Your underwear is really, you know, it's technical and I couldn't just sew it together. But in the grand scheme of things, how simple is that compared to having this big machine blowing air through pipes and somehow getting them into your pants?

[00:37:59] Like that's crazy. Didn't have to be that

[00:38:02] Saara: complicated. And it's. But that's what people think of innovation today has to be complex. The more difficult, the, the, the bigger, the deep tech aspect is, the better it's going to be. And we, sometimes it's all about just taking a step back and looking at the simpler things.

[00:38:22] And how can we do that simply, practically and efficiently.

[00:38:30] Rosie: That's phenomenal. Yeah. I want, I want to go back because, you know, you're, you go against every traditional thing out there and I, I love it so much. But if I was to look at your resume on paper before you did Cool Beans, I'd go, right, you went to a private girl's school, you did a Bachelor of Science, you're a medical researcher, you know, you've co authored on all these scientific papers.

[00:38:56] You sound boring. So where did this, no offense there, I'm being very judgmental, uh, so where did this entrepreneurial spirit come from? Was it there from the beginning?

[00:39:08] Saara: You know, I'm also, it's not that you left off my resume. I'm also an Uber driver, a chef, a, uh, a bartender, I'm a qualified field guide in South Africa.

[00:39:20] I lived in South Africa. Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. Okay. Drive. Um, and game walks and, um, I process my own meat and, you know, I, I

[00:39:30] Rosie: should have gone further back because now I think I know the answer to my question.

[00:39:35] Saara: I think it's so important as well with our nutrition and so many people don't understand The quality of meat, the difference between, um, your own meat and what you buy at the shops.

[00:39:47] And a lot of children don't understand where meat comes from. A lot of children will say, well, where does meat come from? I love the shop, you know, they don't have that connection that it's actually coming from a, from a real animal. And so I, I do, I process my own meat. I haven't processed any big animals for a long time.

[00:40:09] I'm a bit short on time, but I can't imagine why we have a, you know, 25 chickens and ducks and quails and, and we incubate them and we do, we process our own chicken, um, and duck and the children then get to appreciate. the value of where meat comes from, um, as well as then a more nutritious diet for them.

[00:40:34] But yeah, so like I said, I was a bit of a risk taker. I was always a bit of a tomboy and, you know, a bit of a go getter. Uh, and. I never let, like, my father is also, I know I didn't speak about my father earlier. My father is this incredible man where he can build anything. He, um, the, the house, actually I live in this house here is this most beautiful house that he built every weekend, um, over, I think about five years working full time and then building this house.

[00:41:08] And I always said, I wanted to raise my children in this house. Um, and I had children and so here I am now raising my kids in this house and we live out on, I'm very fortunate we live out on 30 acres in the bush and we can have that land. But I always saw my father as this person who can build and create anything he wanted and my brothers are a lot older than I am, uh, which we touched on earlier and he got to teach my brothers.

[00:41:39] all of these skills, how to hunt, how to shoot, how to, um, use machinery and tools. And I'm like, God damn it. Why I missed out on all of that. And I was determined that like anything that they could do, I could do better. And it's always been something that I've strived for. Um, and I've never not knowing how to do something.

[00:42:04] let that hold me back. It's always, I will figure it out. I will make sure if I don't know, I will ask someone who knows and I will learn how to do this and we will work it out. And it's just, It's something I don't really think about. It's just, I guess, my, my way of life is, you know, just, if it needs to be done, just go, go do it and get it done and, um, and you'll figure it out on the way.

[00:42:32] Yeah. Do you think this way of

[00:42:34] Rosie: life? Do you think it's something people can learn, like this whole nature versus nurture thing? There's some people who are very naturally more risk takers and willing to ask the difficult questions and just figure shit out as they go. So can we, can we learn how to do that?

[00:42:50] Do you think? Yes,

[00:42:53] Saara: it's, you know, you've got to have that growth mindset and you need to be willing and wanting to. If you're not, and then you're never going to change. But there are exercises you can do to really develop and have that growth mindset. And, but you just, again, you need to want it, anything in life.

[00:43:15] that's going to be of any value to you is going to be hard to get. And if you're not willing to put in the hard work and work towards it, um, you know, it's, it's not worth having because it's not, it's not hard work for you. You don't want it bad enough. And if you don't want it bad enough, you're never going to get it.

[00:43:40] And I've never been able to say, no, I can't do that, or that's out of my reach. And that's the way I, I live my life every day. And it's what I try, I try to strive with my children every day and to, hopefully they can look at their mom who, who works 80, 100 hours a week. And, um, you know, which is the sacrifice we've told them, you know, we're sacrificing a year of our life.

[00:44:10] Where mom is going to work her butt off and we're going to get the best traction as possible and grow the company so that we, that way we're creating a better life for, for us, a more financially secure life. And then we can hopefully start employing staff members to, to support mom and, um, and the life that we want and, you know, Teaching them the value of money and what it, and the value of life essentially.

[00:44:41] Rosie: Yeah. That's so powerful. And I, I feel like they're conversations many parents wouldn't have with their kids. They wouldn't have that open conversation. But I think those conversations. I think that's so powerful and really shape who we are. So Van and Heidi, I think that's so lucky to have you as a mother and I'm sure your husband, if you've married this guy, he's awesome too.

[00:45:04] So that's so lucky.

[00:45:06] Saara: I am. I won the jackpot with my husband. I truly am. He is the most incredible, supportive, loving man. Who was destined to be as much a father as I am a mother. He, he blows my mind every day. We celebrated our 11 year wedding anniversary this year. And I'd say I probably love him more today than, than I did when we first got married.

[00:45:31] But it was a whirlwind relationship, you know, we were married within the year, so.

[00:45:38] Rosie: You don't muck around.

[00:45:40] Saara: I told you. And you know you want

[00:45:41] Rosie: something? That's it. Yeah, you did. You did tell me.

[00:45:43] Saara: Um, so we met in May, moved in in July, engaged in October and married by March. Wow. And there was no pregnancy on the cards then, by the way.

[00:45:54] It just goes

[00:45:59] Rosie: to show though, there's not one way to do things, you know, people think there's a right and wrong way. And I think it's true for entrepreneurship in particular, and tell me, correct me if you think I'm wrong, but. I don't think there's one way to do things.

[00:46:13] Saara: Uh, most definitely not. It's, um, you have to look at what you have around you and use that to your leverage, and that's going to be different for everyone.

[00:46:24] Um, and it's the people you meet and the willingness to, to open up to people and to have those discussions and. And, um, connect with then their networks and the other, the other thing that I'm very good at is asking for things. Um, that's a good skill to have. What's the worst thing that, that they're going to do?

[00:46:47] Say no. Okay. No worries. No problem. But if you don't ask, you're never going to get, you know, I'm always a hustler trying to. Get the best deal I can. And I'm not afraid of, uh, of asking, you know, what about a bit of a sponsorship here or, you know, just trying to get the, the, the best bang for your buck. You have to be a hustler in these early days.

[00:47:12] Rosie: And you've got to think differently and creatively. And I love, you know, it's so simple saying, you know, just ask the question, but it terrifies people. I know sometimes I still get in my head about it, but I'm constantly being slapped in the face. Like I'll get brave. I'll ask somebody something and the outcome just.

[00:47:30] Astounds me. Yeah, I get no's and sometimes answers I don't want, but other times the results are just phenomenal. It's like, wow, if I never asked the question, this never would have happened. Yeah. And something I heard from, I think it was a business coach recently, not mine. It was in relation to sales.

[00:47:48] He's like, don't make a sales decision for somebody else. Don't go, Oh no, they're not a right fit for me. Have the conversation. You don't know.

[00:47:56] Saara: That's right. Amount of conversations I have, and it's not always, you know, it may end up being a sales meeting and it might end up, um, you know, one of my first meetings with my UK distributor, never did I think that they were going to be interested in being a distributor.

[00:48:15] I was just connecting because they were in the male fertility sector and I wanted to, you know, to connect and let them know about our product and, you know, maybe they've got people that they have in their network that could use our product. And, uh, and then it. Totally pivoted, uh, and they became my first distributor and it blew my mind.

[00:48:35] But that's how it happens. You don't want to limit yourself in the conversations that you have. And you want to be trying to get the word out there as much as possible, because you don't know who that person then knows and the connections that they can open up to. And that's been just tremendous in my success now in the last few months in moving forward.

[00:48:59] Rosie: Mm. That's phenomenal. It's so true. You never know where a conversation is going to go. Like for example, I launched an online community earlier this year and the founding members, they were all people. I wasn't necessarily expecting to join, but they were in my circle and I was sharing with them with what I was doing.

[00:49:19] And they were just like, sign me up. I was like, wow. Like, it's just, yeah, it's, it's just great. I, cause I'm someone who gets, In my head about talking to people. I'm not a natural networker or whatever you want to bloody call it. So it makes me uncomfortable. But whenever I get out there and do it, it feels great because it's connecting with people and that's why I've got the podcast.

[00:49:44] I say I'm not good at networking, but actually podcasting probably is a form of networking, right? So it's a mindset thing. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I have a final question and this is something I ask every guest. So Saara, what does freedom mean to you?

[00:50:05] Saara: Taking my kids exploring and not being concerned where that location is, be able to have the time and the money to just go where we want.

[00:50:20] And go exploring. I had the, one of the most cherished memories I have. So as I mentioned earlier, I like to hike. And so my son for his sixth birthday last year, I'd taken my kids on overnight hikes. And so for my son for his sixth birthday last year, he asked me, mum, will you take me on my first multi day hike?

[00:50:45] And so last year, middle of winter, we went out to Girraween National Park. So if anyone knows where Girraween is, they know it gets below freezing at winter, middle of winter. So his birthday was the 21st of June and we spent his birthday on the trail, four days, 35 kilometers, just hiking out in the wilderness.

[00:51:05] And. My kids love it. They love to be hiking or camping, just out in the absolute wilderness exploring new locations. And right now we can't really do that too much. One I'm recovering from ankle surgery, but secondly, um, you know, we're investing all of our time and money back into cool beans right now.

[00:51:28] And so freedom is having the freedom. The option, if we want to go somewhere to have the time and the money to do that.

[00:51:41] Rosie: I love that. I got goosebumps listening to your story about you taking your son on that four day hike. Like that is beautiful and I never get, it never gets old listening to people's answers to this question because everybody has a different take and I'd like to argue that business I mean, for me, anyway, I use it as a vehicle to get that freedom.

[00:52:06] Is that your aim with Cool Beans? Yeah.

[00:52:09] Saara: Most definitely. Like, yes, we want to have the impact. I want to create a healthier tomorrow for my kids, and I want to make sure that they can have the opportunity to hopefully conceive naturally. Um, and, but for me personally, it's having that time and money to, if we want to go to Africa and go for two weeks and just go exploring, we can do that and afford to do that and not have a boss telling me, no, you can't take time off to go with your kids to Africa, you know, or we see something there's a, you know, my, my sister in law took her daughter to see Taylor Swift in Singapore.

[00:52:52] And they could do that because they had the opportunity and the, the means to, to just go do that. You know, if that, if we had the opportunity, there's no way that I could do that right now because all of our money and time is invested into Cool Beans, but one day we will have that opportunity.

[00:53:13] Rosie: And I've got one more sort of question slash comment to make.

[00:53:17] I can't stop. We could be talking for hours. Um. You brought up money. This was the first time in an almost hour conversation, right? And it's very clear to me that money is not the number one driving force for you finding cool beans and doing the work you do, but I really want to unpack your thoughts on money because I have found, especially for women, there seems to be a lot of shame around saying, yeah, I want to make lots of money.

[00:53:48] And there almost seems to be this belief that you can't make lots of money and be doing meaningful work.

[00:53:55] Saara: That's right. What are your

[00:53:55] Rosie: thoughts on that?

[00:53:57] Saara: So, I definitely want to make lots of money. Me too. I think everyone who works this hard, I haven't pulled a salary, uh, in six years for Cool Beans. And so, I think my hard work and effort will be repaid one day.

[00:54:15] Um, but while money doesn't do it. Bring happiness, it brings the opportunity, do more and have happiness associated with that. So happiness for me, as I said, is time with my kids, exploring, being out in nature, you know, going to the remote ends of the world where no one's ever been before. And. You need money to do that.

[00:54:38] Unfortunately. Um, I'm not happy just keeping my kids at home and, you know, just going always down to the park or going down to a free camping spot, you know, even just trying to get the ferry over to Straddy or to Moreton Island for, A few days. It's too expensive. The ferry costs money and to then have that opportunity to not be concerned and just go hell with it, you know, let's go, let's jump on a plane this afternoon, fly to Broome, you know, and do the camel rides there, you know, along the beach and just go exploring up in the Kimberleys because.

[00:55:24] We want to, you know, that is what happiness is for me, but yeah, so unfortunately you do need money, you know, the world revolves around money and while I don't need to be a millionaire, uh, to love my, love my life, um, just, it's going to open up so many more windows and opportunities and experiences that I can have.

[00:55:46] Yeah, but we are. Definitely sacrificing money now and over the last six years that we've been working on Cool Beans, knowing that it's going to repay one day.

[00:56:00] Rosie: Yeah. Hanging onto that. And it really sounds like things are picking up momentum again, you know, shit went sideways and it wasn't on the shelves for a year.

[00:56:09] But yeah. You know, for people listening, we are mainly a female audience, but, you know, there's men in their lives. So if they're going, Hey, I want to grab a pair of these jocks, are they available? Where do they get them?

[00:56:23] Saara: Yes. So definitely available. So coolbeansunderwear. com we ship globally. So it doesn't matter where you are in the world.

[00:56:32] We will ship you product. We do have a distributor here in Australia and one in the UK. So if you, If you're listening in from Europe, uh, you can check out Test Him. So they're doing amazing things in the male fertility sector over in Europe, uh, based in England. And then we are also with Pelvic Pain Australia here, obviously in Australia.

[00:56:56] And so, but we are looking to bring on some more distributors and really start trying to have that global reach. So if there is anyone out there that has a platform and would like to talk to me, you can email me at Saara s double a r a at cool beans, underwear. com.

[00:57:16] Rosie: And I'll put all the links in the description.

[00:57:18] So don't worry people, if you're in the car and can't remember that,

[00:57:22] Saara: we'll also give you a, I'll. Give you a discount code, Rosie, so you can put that in the Oh, amazing. In the comments below for all the listeners out here

[00:57:29] Rosie: today. AmazinSaararah, thank you so much. Like I have learned so much about male fertility today, and I have a feeling our listeners have too.

[00:57:40] I know I will be sharing this with everybody I talk to for the next few weeks because there's, there's lots for me to process and think about, and. Sorry, a midgey went up my nose. Gross. Being there, done

[00:57:55] Saara: that here in Australia. Oh,

[00:57:57] Rosie: God. I didn't even know what I was saying. Oh, that's right. I was rather proud.

[00:58:02] A pun, on purpose now. I'm so glad you had the balls to start this company. I think what you're doing is amazing. Thank you. I just know it's going to take off. It's already happening and it's just going to keep growing. And I think that's amazing. You're changing lives and making the world a better place.

[00:58:21] So thank you once again. I can't wait to see. where Cool Beans goes in the future.

[00:58:27] Saara: Thank you, Rosie. It's been amazing to be here tonight and to finally connect after so long. Um, I think we've been chatting now for so, so many years, so it's great to, to finally connect again.

[00:58:39] Rosie: It's been good, even though, so for people listening, we're on Riverside and it prioritizes audio.

[00:58:45] So Saara currently looks like a potato. I haven't really been able to see her. It's probably the same on her end. Um, but if you do want to catch the video, jump on YouTube, it will not be pixelated. That's the, um, the magic of Riverside, but we will catch everybody next week. Thank you.

[00:59:03] If this episode resonated with you at all, could I please ask that you share it with a friend who you think could get value from it?

[00:59:11] And whilst you're doing that, make sure you follow and subscribe to the podcast so that you never miss another episode. And whilst you're following or subscribing, please leave us a rating. Preferably five stars and also a written review doing each of these things is going to help this podcast, reach more people and impact more lives, which is at the end of the day is what we're here to do.

[00:59:37] Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Remember you matter. You're worth it. And you are so, so capable. Take care of yourself and I'll see you next week