42: "Should is an Asshole" with Katie Portanova (Part 1)

[00:00:00]

[00:00:19] Rosie: G'day, and welcome to the Pursuit of Freedom podcast. I'm your host, Rosie Burrows, and I'm on a journey to find my freedom so that I can help you do exactly the same. Join me each week as I share the stories of everyday people who've found their own path to freedom.

[00:00:37] I'm not going to focus on job titles and accolades because I don't care about that stuff. And neither should you. I want to uncover what truly makes you tick. Who are you when you step away from society's expectations and follow your heart? I still haven't figured it out yet. Have you? Either way, buckle up because it's going to be one hell of a ride. Welcome back to another episode of the pod. I'm recording in my van today. I'm actually parked up, unfortunately, next to a fairly busy road. So if there's any background noise, I apologize. I will try my best to edit it out. Here's to embracing imperfection. And joining us today is Katie Portanova. I sometimes do a little introductory thing at the beginning, but you know what? I don't feel like it today. Cause I want Katie to do more of the talking. Katie,

[00:01:38] thank you so

[00:01:39] Katie: Thank you for

[00:01:40] having me, Rosie. I'm really excited. Excited.

[00:01:43] Rosie: me too. Yeah, this, this is going to be great.

[00:01:46] And where I want

[00:01:47] to start is you're someone who's. Always going against the norm. Correct

[00:01:53] me if I'm wrong here.

[00:01:54] Katie: Yeah.

[00:01:56] Rosie: And I'd love for you to take us back. Like where did this start? I'm assuming, this is a pretty big assumption, but I'm assuming it was there when you were younger. So can you just talk us through, what was life like and where did this

[00:02:09] Katie: Yeah.

[00:02:09] Rosie: Katie come from?

[00:02:10] Katie: God, I, yeah. Rebellion. I don't know if I ever was called that. I was more called, like, I was more called somebody that was, like, out of, Like different

[00:02:21] So when I was a child I I am one of four four kids in my family and i'm the only child with blonde hair and blue eyes So I was always the odd person out, you know Probably some could relate like, you know, your sibling saying you're not really part of this family.

[00:02:38] Like, you know, you're Like you're not you don't look like anybody but luckily my dad has blue eyes. So I know i'm part of the family. You But yeah, I mean, I think I always tried to do something when I was a little, I was always out of the box, like trying to do different things. I would annoy my parents a lot because I would try to do things in different ways than my siblings would.

[00:03:01] And I don't have a specific examples, but like, I just remember always being like, Kind of like, you know slapped and saying what are you doing? Why are you doing it that way like calm down or you know? I was very I had a lot of energy as a child and I always wanted to Get out and do other things and like try other things.

[00:03:19] I think kind of where that started and then I always just wanted to be and do and see and Just experience other things than where I'm from.

[00:03:32] Rosie: I resonate

[00:03:32] Katie: Yeah. Do you have birds as well, outside with you?

[00:03:36] Rosie: Yeah. Can you hear them?

[00:03:37] Katie: wondering, like, do

[00:03:39] Rosie: Lots of

[00:03:39] background

[00:03:40] Katie: have a toucan or something outside your window? Yeah.

[00:03:43] What is it like? Because, I don't know if the audience can hear it, but it was like, really loud,

[00:03:49] Rosie: They're just saying hello.

[00:03:50] Katie: podcast. Yeah, so, I think I answered your question, yeah. It was,

[00:03:56] Rosie: yeah.

[00:03:56] definitely. Yeah. It's funny how these things often start early

[00:03:59] Katie: Mm hmm.

[00:04:01] Rosie: Was this something, I don't know how to phrase it, but was this something you were supported in? You know, this kind of being a bit

[00:04:09] different? Or did it always feel like something that had you on

[00:04:13] Katie: I was always kind of The quote unquote outcast. I was kind of the black sheep of the family, of my friends, like, I would say things that weren't cool, you know, when we were younger,

[00:04:27] like, you know, I remember specifically, like, saying, I never knew what the word bogus meant. I thought it meant something cool, and I remember in fifth grade, like, saying how bogus everything was, and they're like, like, That's not what it means and I'm like, Oh, so I always felt like I had a different way of expressing myself and then I always had, I had a different way of like just being and I, and I don't think I was very much supported in that in a lot of my friends and my family because I was kind of, I come from a family where, well, I love my family, but I come from a family where we kind of don't want to be, you know, in the spotlight, we don't want to be,

[00:05:09] we don't want, um, people to know that katie's doing that or something or try to fit in Katie like, you know, try not to stand out because That's where you get into trouble kind of thing So and I did I did a lot of standing out and did a lot of things that yes I did get you know bullied and made fun of and all the horrible grades of middle school.

[00:05:31] But I honestly like in the end there were Towards high school and then into college like I think I came into my own because I had this This this idea in my mind like This is not where one high school isn't going to last forever. And, you know, college isn't going to last forever, but college was able, I was able to like open myself up to the world.

[00:05:52] And so that's where I ended up

[00:05:54] abroad in Florence, and that was the only time that was the first time in my life where I'm like, this, this feels good. This is my group. This is my jam. You know, when you listen to like, Really good music. And you're like, I can't get up from listening to this music.

[00:06:08] Like, that's how I felt. Like,

[00:06:11] You just know you're in the right split. You're in the right place and the right time. And even if after I moved back after I studied abroad and I came back and I did my senior year, I told all my teammates on my soccer team at St. Mary's and in, in Minnesota. And I said, you know, I'm going to live in Florence.

[00:06:30] And they're like, okay, whatever. Like brushing me off. I'm like, okay, that's a challenge. Like I like took it as a challenge. I'm like, all right, fine. You guys think I'm lying. You think I just like Yeah, watch me watch me do what I want to do. There were hard times in my childhood and then there were like times where I felt resilient I feel like that's where I felt when I moved abroad and everything like that I had that feeling of like, you know, I can do this.

[00:06:59] I don't need approval. I don't need permission I don't need people to Support me. Like I can support, be my own, like cheerleader, be my own, like be there for myself and know in my, and listen to the intuition that's within. Like, because I think that was what initially would deter me from certain things, you know?

[00:07:21] I'm sure like, and now that you just said you live in a van, sorry to sidetrack, but like, I had no idea you lived in a van you know, that is, that is out of the norm. Of, of like, living and like, I wonder if you feel like that, I think that feeling of like going out and doing something completely, there's not like people that just say, Hey, we're the van community.

[00:07:46] I think, you know, you did it on your own. So like, I'm sure you feel similar feelings as I, as I do. Right. With what you've done.

[00:07:56] Rosie: Yeah. Yeah. And it took me a while. Like it's, I've only been in the van a few months

[00:08:01] living full time, but it's been a dream for probably a decade. And I think the biggest thing that's held me back is getting caught up with, Oh, what are people going to think? You know, I can't do that. That's

[00:08:13] not the way it's done.

[00:08:14] Oh, you know, as soon as I got in my head, I took myself out of it. But one day I just said, fuck this. Like I lost both my parents young and all of a sudden I just went, why

[00:08:26] am I hedging? Like I should know that life is unpredictable. Let's just do the thing. It's taken me a while. I, it's taken me four years to convert this van. I bought it thinking it's going to take me six months. So that didn't go to plan, but I'm here and I think, I've really found my sense of belonging, like it just feels like home, more so than any other house I've lived in, right? Which is the typical way of living. So yeah, I really resonate

[00:09:04] Katie: I think that's like, once you feel that sense, not that, that sense of belonging is like, is something that's, we all yearn for, as, as quoting Brene Brown, I'm not, I don't have her quote, but we need, we feel, we need to belong somewhere, we want to feel like we, not necessarily fit in, because fitting in is not the same as belonging.

[00:09:26] But

[00:09:27] that's like when I, I just came back from spending Christmas with my family and friends and my husband's family and our friends in, in Florence and like, I always feel like I belong. Like, I always feel like, even though like, The first night, like, we, like, had, I got off our jet lag, like, our really good friends were just like, okay, we're meeting for dinner at 9 15.

[00:09:51] And I'm like, it's so late, really early where I'm at in Chicago. So, but I'm like, but afterwards, like, I kept feeling, I'm like, this is where I still feel that sense of, like, even though I probably won't move and live in Florence, because that's the city isn't for me anymore. But, like. Being in Italy and being in Tuscany is like where I want to be.

[00:10:15] So like, I feel that sense of belonging without approval, without feeling that I need to get permission from somebody else or, you know, you know, feeling bad that like my friends that I have here aren't going to be there. Like, it's not about them, you know? So there's, there's a lot of like. There's a lot of work I've been doing within myself this past year.

[00:10:37] And I was like thinking about my, my word of the year. Cause I always try to think of like a word and usually for the last, before COVID, like my word was always persevere. It was always persevere throughout the year. Last year, my word was trust. And this year is steadiness,

[00:10:56] Rosie: Mmmmmmm. Ha ha ha

[00:10:59] Katie: take breaks.

[00:11:01] And not push myself into burnout or oblivion of like, who do do and make money, make money, make money. But like, that's not as much as like, we all need to make an income, but like, so many, there's so many things that get wrapped up, especially when you're a small business owner of like trying to, what, what is my purpose?

[00:11:23] Am I doing it for, am I do, am, am, am I in this frame of thinking because I'm worried about money? Am I in this frame of thinking because I'm worried about getting more people to follow me or getting more people on my retreat? If I'm, if I'm worried about any of those two things, like I've decided, I'm like, I'm not, I'm not pursuing it.

[00:11:45] I'm not pursuing that path or I'm not, I'm not giving it more energy than it needs because I decided also, and I don't know how you are with social media, but like, I have not gained one Customer or client from social media in the last five years Okay that i've been working on my retreats and stuff. So i'm like, I don't really

[00:12:11] Yeah, i'll have the presence there because my business coaches was like you should have a presence whatever.

[00:12:15] I don't mind whatever I have a presence i'll put a post a week. I don't really care. But I don't I don't think that exudes The passion and the purpose and the mission and the vision that I have, because you can read, read, read all day long and you can scroll and scroll. And like, it's not the same thing as like, like as a podcast, like, so I'm going to dedicate my time more to my podcast and what else was I going to do?

[00:12:43] Something else, obviously it's still, it's just the third, right? Okay, good. I'm like, it's just the third. I still have time to think about all the things that I want to accomplish,

[00:12:53] Rosie: love your word of the year steadiness. I think that just maybe that should be my word too. It's I can very easily get caught up in be a cog in the machine and I should be doing these things and blah, blah, blah. But when you just take a breath and go, okay, what do I want? And what's the reason behind that?

[00:13:16] You know, I might be, let's use social media. I might be doing all these posts, spending all this time. And if I just go, actually, why am I doing that? Well, it's because everybody tells me I should not because it brings me joy. So you know what? I'm going to take a step back.

[00:13:32] Katie: I think that there's, I would come home from my full time job all, all year last year and just, like, work on my website, and then, like, wondering to myself, like, what do, what do I need to do? More to my website, but I would just like tweak it or like change, like pictures or like, and I work on my email campaigns and my email lists and like do all these things.

[00:13:57] And I'm like, I don't like doing that. Like, I think back to myself now, I'm like, why did I, I mean, it's, it's for me to think that I was doing something for my business. And in the end, it wasn't like doing anything, but just me wasting time and saying, I'm working on my business. Like, and. Now it's like my focus is is going forward is and going with the word steadiness is like, okay I did a I took a lot of videos.

[00:14:28] I got this new camera Before I left and took a lot of videos in Florence and Tuscany and stuff like that. I'm like, okay I'm gonna create these short videos and if they're gonna be I don't know what they're gonna be I'm not gonna put a lot of Energy into trying to create like amazing footage and all, you know, whatever.

[00:14:47] I'm like, I'm not a video editor. I'm never going to be a video editor. I'm never going to be like a perfect public speaker on my podcast. Like I'm never going to be any of those things, but I know I could create some really cool content. I sit down and figure it out and just do it simply and not make it about like making it perfect and making it look like all the other YouTubers out there, whatever.

[00:15:10] Because there's so many things that, when I express myself vocally, is a lot different, more, it's, it's better, and, and it's more passionate, than if somebody reads it on my blog, or reads it on my website, or, like, and nobody reads anymore. Rosie?

[00:15:29] Rosie: Ha Ha

[00:15:30] ha!

[00:15:31] Katie: photographer told me, earlier this year, she's just like, you know, a friend of mine really wants to go on your retreat, but she, she got lost on your website.

[00:15:39] Like, what do you mean?

[00:15:40] Rosie: Ooh.

[00:15:41] Katie: there's just too many words. I'm like, yeah, but that's like explaining everything. Like I'm, she's like telling me, she's like, no, I don't want you to change anything, but there are three things that she wanted to know. Like she wanted to know how much that was, when it was and what we would be doing.

[00:15:57] I'm like, okay, great. So then I like added a blurb at the top of one of my pages that said, when are we going, where we're meeting? , everything else. And, and so it's like, okay, it's there. If people want to see it, but nobody has any attention span to like, look at things anymore.

[00:16:16] And I've noticed more and more like websites going to websites and stuff. Like everything is still like, this is me. This is a picture. Hi, I'm Katie.

[00:16:27] Rosie: Yes.

[00:16:27] Katie: Like really short and sweet

[00:16:29] because nobody wants to read. And I, I'll attest that my husband was Italian. He doesn't like reading. And so I'm like, Even if it's like for work, I'm like, honey, you have to read this email.

[00:16:42] And he's like, yeah, but I just translate with Google translate. I'm like, okay, but you're not even reading it. He's having Google translate it, talk it to him. And I'm like, ah, like, you know? So I think there's like, there's, there's a lot of shifts. I feel like for small business owners, as we move forward into this technology world, because there's people that don't want to be on social media and they're very successful.

[00:17:07] And I know a lot of people. I know a few people that are successful with their businesses offline. But they started online. So like there's these whole like little polls and stuff like that. Like, Hey, what, what's right. It's like, you're, you're balancing plates. Like, like which one, which one is correct.

[00:17:25] And Oh, if it's not, okay, there goes all the plates. Like, okay, fine. And then you give up, you throw all the plates in the air and then you're like, screw it. I'm using plastic or paper plates.

[00:17:37] Rosie: So how do you navigate figuring out what the right thing is? Because like you say, it is like spinning plates and juggling all these things, and it can be overwhelming and you just go, Ugh, don't want to do any of it. But how do you figure out what the right thing for you is?

[00:17:53] Katie: I think one of the things I've been working on is just really tapping into my intuition and my gut feeling. Like, do I like doing it? Do I like doing XYZ? No, I don't. Okay, so what do I like doing? Okay, well, I like talking. and I like talking about stories and I like going off on tangents.

[00:18:12] Oh, shoot. And then trying to like regroup and like, you know, okay. So maybe my podcast is a thing. So I think it's more of just like being aware of how it feels in your body. Like, because

[00:18:24] Rosie: Mm hmm.

[00:18:25] Katie: if you are doing things because society or small business, a small business coach told you, or your mom told you or your dad, you know, somebody, some, someone of authority or someone in your life has told you like, no, no, you should be doing it like this.

[00:18:42] And I think that's wrong. Like, and that's where you learn, that's where, I feel like that's where you lose yourself. Where you hear from other people, no, you know, why are you doing your retreats like that? You should do it like this. Well, should is, should is an asshole. I'm quoting Jennifer Pasteloff. I don't know if you know that author.

[00:19:02] On Being Human.

[00:19:04] You should read that book. It's really good. But she would, she would always say should is an asshole. Throughout her book. Because, because what you, the word should, It's not, it's something that I hate to say, even when I talk it to other people, but like, I try not to even say that to my clients, like, because like, I don't care if you want to go from Rome to Venice to Milan and like, Oh, we just, I'm going to be honest.

[00:19:30] It's gonna, you're not going to enjoy it. You're going to be exhausted. You're going to be this, you're going to be that.

[00:19:36] Um, but you could totally do it. If you, if you were willing and able and you, you say, this is the last only time I'm going to Italy and I want to go and see all the main cities. Great.

[00:19:47] But you're gonna be exhausted, and I'm gonna put all the facts out, like, you're gonna be really tired. But, I mean, some people like to be tired, and be exhausted, and sleep on the plane on the way home. Like,

[00:20:02] Rosie: I love this whole should is an asshole. It's true. I I'm very mindful. Of using that word, like it

[00:20:11] slips out quite often, but I go, mm, no. Why am I

[00:20:15] saying should? That's a red flag straight up. There's no, there's no need for this.

[00:20:20] Should, whenever I do something I

[00:20:21] should be doing usually bites

[00:20:24] Katie: Totally. And then, and then, and it's usually something that you know in your heart, that you don't want to do.

[00:20:31] Rosie: mm

[00:20:33] Katie: let's go to like, like exercise, like, People saying, okay, now it's the first of the year coming into this gym. Let's go to the gym. Oh, I should do an hour every day. I should do this.

[00:20:42] Do that. Okay. No, like be okay with doing five minutes and then doing 10

[00:20:50] and then doing 15 or, or then, you know, taking a break for a week and then coming back. Like, there's no need to do things the way, you know, people are telling you that you need to do it. And going back to the fact of, like, you know, when you, when you were asking me how I navigate, like, which, what's right for me, like, my mother in law says this a lot to me, she's like, the only, the only way you learn is to make mistakes.

[00:21:19] That's the only way you learn. So, as I was telling her some things when I was, when we were there over Christmas, and she's just like, and I was just saying, like, oh, I, you know, I did this wrong. I did this wrong. She's like, you didn't do it wrong. You made a mistake. And you learn from it. Now you just need to ship.

[00:21:36] Now, you know that that didn't work, you know This is what this is the path you want to go on or you want to just turn on that light bulb and go? Okay, that path didn't work. Whatever lesson came out of that. Okay. No, I'm not gonna charge that I'm gonna charge this because then I won't be you know You know without paying for the the service fee or whatever it is that that happens, you know, there's I think it's important to be aware, especially people that are, if it's, if you're a one woman, one woman, one man show in your business, like you are, you should find that compassion within when you do make a mistake, because I'm sure like in the four years of you setting up your van, there were probably some mistakes, which you probably put yourself up on at first because you never did it.

[00:22:30] And you're like, shit, why didn't I know to put this material in or not? Like. I think a lot of us, compassion is not taught in families because nobody knows it. And our, like, I feel like most of the people that grow up with parents that have had some sort of trauma, there is not going to be a lot of compassion taught because they weren't taught compassion.

[00:22:54] And then they, their parents weren't taught compassion. Like it's a rare skill to have is to be self compassionate. And I'm still struggling with that daily. I try so hard to like. Be kind to myself and not be like yesterday. I was at work and my full time job and I'm really good at it. I'm a personal trainer at a country club.

[00:23:16] Well a fitness director at a country club and it's so easy that it's boring I think Really like it's easy. It's boring. It's five minutes from my house, which is amazing but I said out loud in my office Because my friend jenny always tells us tells us to me. She's like katie. It's just a job You It's a job for you to make your dreams come true.

[00:23:40] Go forward with your, with your business. Because I would say like, Oh, you know, I want, you know, this is annoying because I have to do this. I do that. It's like, Hey, you are five minutes from your house and it's just a job. So yesterday in my office, I said out loud, it's just a job, Katie. It doesn't define me.

[00:24:00] It's not my purpose. It's not like, I feel like there's so many. It may basically like Western society, or like, I'm sure in Australia this is like that, but we're all about, our job is our life. Our job is our life, it is our purpose, it's what makes us who we are. So like, when When somebody asks you like, what do you do?

[00:24:23] That's like what that is the normal question that we get asked like well, I don't do personal training as my passion like But I do do other things. From self compassion to like just understanding the fact that you know being able to Understand that even if you are in a job that you hate that pays the bills You Maybe you're lurking, you're looking to like open your own business or, you know, be on, you know, transition to a completely different job, which I've had a lot of friends do during COVID.

[00:25:03] I think it's just important to be that, be that compassion and being for yourself, because if you're, if you're not,

[00:25:11] it's where you lose yourself in the process that society tells you to be, basically, is that you, they tell you that you have to be with your, you know, at least in the American society that I've grown up in, your, your job is your life.

[00:25:24] Like, you have your family and then there's your job, but there's no such thing as like downtime, like work life balance, self care. There's no such thing. You know, so, but luckily I have that, you know, I have work life balance. But,

[00:25:39] Rosie: Mm.

[00:25:39] Katie: yeah, it's it's a, it's, it's tricky and I feel like, I mean, how do you feel, like, with with, with that

[00:25:48] Rosie: let's start with the compassion thing. I, I find it so much easier to show compassion for

[00:25:55] Katie: Mm hmm.

[00:25:56] Rosie: than to show compassion

[00:25:57] for myself.

[00:25:59] Katie: can't stop.

[00:25:59] Rosie: And what's that about? Like I, sometimes the way I treat myself or the thoughts I have, that inner dialogue is so cruel and I would never

[00:26:11] dream. of treating

[00:26:13] someone else like that. So why do we fall into that habit? I think a lot of us do it, especially as

[00:26:19] women, and it's destructive. It really is.

[00:26:22] So I, I'm actively working on that too.

[00:26:26] It's not easy. but I, I keep telling myself if I don't try this, cause it's, this is what it often is for me. I want to do something and then I'm. Too busy thinking about what other

[00:26:41] people think and I'm gonna fail. I Just tell myself if I don't try I'm never gonna know if I Succeed or not because I get caught up with I'm gonna fail. It's not

[00:26:52] Katie: Oh, totally.

[00:26:54] Rosie: But you know what if I never try I'm never gonna bloody know so That's bullcrap like just give it a go and you were talking about

[00:27:02] Katie: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

[00:27:04] Rosie: They, you know, I guess it can sound cliche, but they really are learning opportunities. I think we grow as

[00:27:12] Katie: Yeah,

[00:27:13] Rosie: if we're able to reflect on it, right? If we just beat ourselves up, Oh, I failed and blah, blah, blah.

[00:27:18] Katie: there's a lot of people that are like that. Like there's a rare, I think there's a rare community, like a small community of people that are able to see themselves and like, look at themselves from the outside and say like, okay, that was a mistake, but you're okay, you're safe, like everything's okay, you know, and, and the fact of failing, like failing is a huge thing when I started my business.

[00:27:41] Because one, I had never done a retreat on my, like, participated in a retreat. So I just said, I'm going to do retreats. But I like, had no idea how to plan them. I had no idea how to find a villa. I had no idea to I didn't have any steps. Like, I just did it on my own. And even the first one we did in 2022, like It was a success, but yeah, there were mistakes.

[00:28:09] There were things that I could, I, I got feedback from the people and I, and I took it with like compassion and be like, Oh my God, thank you for letting me know. Even though deep down, you know, that feeling when you're like, yeah, tell me how you really feel, but you really just want to be like, shut the fuck up.

[00:28:24] I don't that you didn't like the car. That was the car I chose. And I'm sorry that you got sick. You know, they felt a little nauseous in the car, but you know, Tuscany is like this, you know, they're winding roads. But it's not, I thought that you drank four bottles of wine tonight, but I didn't say that.

[00:28:39] I didn't say that. I mean,

[00:28:42] I think that there's like. Especially after that, like. I wrote down, I actually did, there's this there's this app called otter, like, like the animal otter. And it's a voice memo, like, it's like a transcription, like, if you were in a meeting and you wanted to. To hear it all.

[00:28:59] So I, every night at the end of, at the end of each day. I, I talked out my notes. And I said, okay, this didn't work. This didn't work this and that felt really good. And then I went back and then wrote him down and I got so From there and then like me trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to planning vacations Like I was like talking up.

[00:29:25] My husband's like a really good steady rock and he's a libra. Thank god. But I would say like, you know, I want to do this. I want to do that. And, and he would just be like, okay, okay, this is an, and he would help me with like math and like, cause I hate math and logistics, like figuring out like how to get from there to there and like, but then I finally realized at the end of this year, cause I didn't do a retreat this year.

[00:29:47] I'm like, okay, I have a really good base in, in one villa, which is near my mother in law's house. I'm like, okay, I have a really good relationship with the owner. It's really close to Florence. It's this and this and that. I'm like, okay. And the other problem I had was like, well, okay, so let me, I'll rewind.

[00:30:08] Okay. So I want to do, I want to do a bill. I want to do a villa retreat. And then I wanted to do one in Florence because Florence is my love and I know Florence very well. So I had found this B& B. I have not stayed in it yet, but I've visited Lucrezia twice already, just to like, ask her questions. Like I visit her over Christmas just to like, ask her more questions.

[00:30:29] And she's so sweet. I'm like, okay. Okay. And I feel good about it. So when I feel in my body, I'm like, okay, this is good. Like I, I never stayed with Lucrezia. I'm I have no idea what the experience will be like, but it's good. I feel good. So I have those two pillars. I'm like, okay, that's what I want to do.

[00:30:46] The other problem as a small business owner, especially for this type of retreat is the fact that I have to buy a ticket. That tickets are so expensive. I, I, we spent 4, 000 to go for Christmas. Okay. Me and my husband really expensive.

[00:31:00] So I need to cut that down. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to do two of these in one trip because that's cut down on my expenses for that going to cut down on my car rental because in Florence, I won't need a car.

[00:31:16] So. Yeah, so there's there's a as much as like I didn't want to like just start with what I wanted to do Honestly Rosie. I wanted to go from Puglia to Lake Como like I wanted to do all these different

[00:31:33] Rosie: Mm.

[00:31:34] Katie: then I'm like, oh shit I have to plan them like and I have a friend that lives near Lake Como and she was kind of helping me and stuff But I'm like, okay, this is not feeling great What do I know?

[00:31:48] I know Tuscany. I know Florence. Why am I trying to create something different when I know what I know and then when I feel more comfortable, maybe then, and if I, you know, make some more money, then I can take some research trips down to Puglia and find the right places. So, It has taken me now four and a half years to figure out I can just do one trip a year and not beat myself up and be like, I have to do this.

[00:32:20] I have to do that. And I, and it's so funny, like, and I don't know how I'm going to ask you this question after the fact, but like, I have a job. It pays really well. Like my full time job pays really well. So I'm like, I, it's not, but I was rushing to get out of it.

[00:32:39] Because I was thinking, okay, I'm going to be happier, which is wrong to say.

[00:32:43] I'm going to be happier when I'm just doing this because not necessarily it's true because it's just me right now

[00:32:50] Rosie: Right.

[00:32:51] Katie: So I'm the one that's doing all the work Like I don't I haven't hired anybody yet. I don't have a driver. My husband's my driver, which he's getting so like there's There's a lot of like moving parts that like, if, if I become, and I, I hope to, I shouldn't say keep saying if, but like when I become successful and if this becomes successful, but like, I, that's a fear talking when I say if,

[00:33:20] Rosie: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:33:21] Katie: but I, I know that I'll, I'll need to hire people and I'll need help because it's not, it won't be a hardworking machine if it's just me pulling my hair out and just chugging bottles of wine. But like for you, I mean, I think, I mean, I don't know your whole story, but like, if you when you decided that you wanted to live in your van and like prepare, Like, I know there, like you said, you already said, there's a lot of fear that came up, But there was also a lot of probably processes you had to do In order to then set up your van so that you could have your computer there and like electric Electricity and stuff like that like all the like logistics

[00:34:01] Rosie: Oh.

[00:34:02] Katie: in a vehicle.

[00:34:03] Rosie: Right. So true. I really underestimated, which I think a lot of Us do, the work and effort it would require. Like you said, figuring out the setup. It's still not perfect. If people are watching on YouTube, you can see my computer monitor to the side that's sort of folded away. There's wires everywhere, but it's good

[00:34:25] enough for now.

[00:34:26] And you know, at the moment I'm pulled up in a location that's not the perfect recording location, but I'm really trying to embrace this imperfection because I think it's better me getting this podcast out, sharing your story and the value you have to offer than just not doing anything at all. And I mentioned earlier, it took me four years to get the van to where it is now. That's how much I underestimated. I said, six months, it's been four years. And initially I beat myself up about that. Like, Oh, why'd you take so long? You should have worked harder. But I worked really bloody hard, actually.

[00:35:02] Katie: that sounds hard.

[00:35:04] Rosie: Yeah, and I did it all myself. I have no experience building stuff or doing electrics.

[00:35:10] Like, it's been such a

[00:35:11] challenge. It's not perfect. It doesn't look very pretty. But actually I'm really

[00:35:17] proud and it's taken me a while to get to that point. I used to show people the van and be like, Oh, you know, it's not finished. And you know, I haven't done it before and you know, don't judge. But now I just say, look, it's imperfect, but it's practical.

[00:35:31] I did it

[00:35:32] myself and I'm so proud. I'm working on, I am so proud of myself. People kind of go, huh? You don't say that you can't say you're proud of

[00:35:40] yourself, but

[00:35:41] Katie: Why not? Exactly. Because you did it. And that's the same thing for me. It's like, I, I'm still trying to get there to be proud of myself for what I've done. Because it's hard to, it's hard when you do art already. Yeah. Normally judge yourself and like yourself up. So I have, if you, if you could see what's behind my computer, I have lists of facts about me so that I'm always looking up and being like, no, I did that.

[00:36:11] No, I'm, I know that. And I, I speak fluent Italian. Okay. I know Florence, like the back of my hand, I married in Italian. Like, you know, all the things that are facts that make me a, a passionate authentic like guide

[00:36:31] Rosie: Mm.

[00:36:31] Katie: for Tuscany because my, my, my, my trips are not about checking off things off your list and like rushing to the next excursion or landmark that's around.

[00:36:48] My trips are about being able to really embrace and like sit in the moment with people, with locals, with the fellow, you know, participants. With my family, like with me, like we have dinner every night together, like at the villa or at a restaurant in Florence, which is what I planned. Like, so we can talk about the day and we can, you know, you know, remind ourselves like, Oh my God, going, making pasta with John Luca was so cool.

[00:37:22] Like, you know, I've never experienced anything like that. Like, I think in this go, go, go world, even more so now with the, as fast as technology and everything is moving. People are slowing down so much less where they don't connect one with themselves, with others,

[00:37:42] Rosie: Mm.

[00:37:42] Katie: with the world around them. Like, you know, opening your eyes and actually looking at a, a, a, a vista without your phone in front of your face.

[00:37:53] Like, can you just look at it? Like, can you just see? I mean, I,

[00:37:58] Rosie: Just take it in

[00:37:59] Katie: I know, I, I mean, I do that all the time. Like, I take a lot of pictures, but like I walked around Florence over Christmas and it's been the first time in 12, 12 years for me that I've been back for Christmas and

[00:38:12] I slipped around. I'm like, Oh my God, like, this is a breathtaking city.

[00:38:17] It's, it's great. I love hearing all the languages in the street. Like I, I just, all my senses were like on like high volume, like, okay. Oh, like I was like touching the walls of these palazzos. Smelling the coffee coming out of the cafes. Looking at everyone in their, in their eyes and like trying to get like an idea of like, okay, where are they going?

[00:38:41] Like, I I'm one of those people that like to people watch. I don't know if you like to people watch, but like, I love watching people walk through a Piazza or walk down the street and like, wait, where are they going to get bags, they might want shopping. I don't know. I'm I'm a little, like, nutty that way, but, like, I really like just to, like, be in the moment as much as I can and, and kind of just feel that feeling of being present, like, because it, it's, it's hard to be present because we have so many distractions, right?

[00:39:12] Rosie: Mm hmm.

[00:39:14] Katie: It's really hard. It's such a hard thing.

[00:39:17] Rosie: Yes. Understatement. Yes. Mm.

[00:39:21] Katie: it's like, people want to be present. They say they want to be present, but not everybody really knows what that is.

[00:39:31] Rosie: Yes. Right.

[00:39:33] Katie: They can say like, I'm present, but I have my phone in my hand. I'm here, I'm here,

[00:39:39] Rosie: No.

[00:39:39] Katie: like, no, you're not. I have to say that to my mom all the time. I'm like, do you want to talk to me or do you want to text? Because

[00:39:46] Rosie: Oh,

[00:39:47] Katie: like, I understand that like the world has now given people the permission to be rude

[00:39:55] and like to have their phone out.

[00:39:57] Yeah,

[00:40:00] Rosie: I was listening to a talk by Simon Sinek, and he was talking about this issue of the phone, right? He said, if you're standing up talking to someone, you've got your phone in your hand, even if you're not looking at it, that's sending a message to the other person that they're not important. If you're out at dinner, and this is a common thing, I'm not sure if it is where you are, you put your phone face down on the table. So it's like, I'm not looking, but the phone is on the table. Put it away.

[00:40:31] Katie: totally. And I, I'm the, the, all the Experiences I had this past trip with my friends and my family. None of my family and none of my friends, when we went out to dinner, had their phone. It was in their bag or it was in their pocket. We were all talking. We were all looking at each other, making jokes.

[00:40:52] Like I went to visit, we went to visit my husband's cousin Bernardo and Alessandra and like, They didn't have their phones anywhere. We went to their house for lunch and they just want to know everything about what's going on in America. Tell us about your job stuff and all like that was presence.

[00:41:09] Like that was like, I felt seen. I felt heard. I felt like Stefano was seen and heard. Like we had honest conversation without the device, without us. Like, Oh my God, I have to show you this. So I have to show you this video and blah, blah, blah, blah. All the shit that goes on in normal other lives. You know, I, and again, I'm not saying it, that it's like, it's okay that you do it, but I don't like it.

[00:41:38] I don't like it anymore, and I, I should have maybe said that, because I don't need to apologize for not liking somebody, something that somebody else doesn't, that does. And as people, like, age, and I don't know if you have any aging friends, like, in their 60s and 70s, but like, But it's more addicting for them, this type of behavior.

[00:42:00] So it's like, again back to the theme here is presence. There is no presence. They're not present with you. They're not present with the family. They're not present with friends because they're, they're distracted and it becomes an addiction and that's, what's like really, really sad

[00:42:18] because we're All addicted to it in one way or another.

[00:42:21] I, I am, you know, my hands are up. I am as well. I'm trying to like slowly move away from it. But everyone's on their own path of that so I don't want to, like, beat anybody up about that.

[00:42:36] But, but, be kind to

[00:42:38] Rosie: Be kind to yourself, but be

[00:42:39] aware of

[00:42:40] Katie: exactly, be totally aware of it, because it's not, I mean, I'm sure, I mean, for you, do you have that, do you, do you have, feel that you're, like, distracted a lot by the device or things?

[00:42:54] Rosie: constantly. And I just, sometimes there's a lot of shame around that for me and I beat

[00:43:01] Katie: Oh, yeah.

[00:43:02] Rosie: which isn't

[00:43:03] productive. What's that going to change?

[00:43:05] Right. I think I acknowledge the problem and then I make more of an effort because I shouldn't compare myself, but I don't think I'm as bad as other people.

[00:43:14] Like I'll go out with a friend to lunch and I'll look around and there's couples sitting opposite each

[00:43:20] Katie: I know.

[00:43:21] Rosie: not even talking. And I go, that's really sad. I feel

[00:43:25] Katie: Oh, I know. That's like, yeah.

[00:43:27] Rosie: They're missing out on the beauty of life and the person sitting across

[00:43:31] from them. Being present is so important. And yeah, it's something I'm always working on. Like even in a conversation, I'll go, Oh, let me Google that because I'll forget something. And it's like, you don't need to do that. Just continue the

[00:43:45] Katie: Me and my husband had this conversation a few years ago and we would go out to dinner and he would get his phone and I was like, oh, I'm just looking up something. I'm like, what are you looking up? He's like, well, you were just talking about that thing, so I want to make sure that I said the right thing.

[00:43:56] I'm like, who cares? It doesn't matter. There's no, there's no, it's not a quiz show. Like, you know, we're not making sure that we're right or wrong. But yeah, there's this like constant need to make sure that it's correct or that I'm saying it right or that. Oh, let's see if so and so died because I, I, I heard he died and I'm not sure like, but it's not urgent.

[00:44:21] It's not something we

[00:44:23] Rosie: component of this conversation?

[00:44:25] Katie: were talking about friends and you wanted to make sure that yes, Matthew Perry did die last year, but we all know that he did. So, like. It's okay. You don't need to look it up.

[00:44:35] Rosie: Yeah,

[00:44:36] Katie: Not relevant. Yeah

[00:44:38] Rosie: I think, I think I need to write that down and put it on the wall, being present. It's a good reminder.

[00:44:44] Katie: and and I think it's a hard thing to just do because if you're sitting by yourself If it's not meditating or if it's just sitting and you're journaling or if you're just sitting and looking out the window Like when is when was when is the last time you just sat there and looked outside? And like looked at the branches and looked at the trees like nobody does that I mean, I would do it more in the summer because it's prettier like right now.

[00:45:08] It's really You Cloudy, but like gloomy and cold but but yeah, I mean, it's, it's a hard thing to do. Being present, I think, is something that I actually, I want to do more, but I'm also like um, what's the word, hold on I'm intimidated by it because I, what am I going to find when I'm sitting with myself?

[00:45:31] What am I going to feel?

[00:45:33] Rosie: yeah.

[00:45:34] Katie: What is my ego going to say? Katie, stop working so hard because it's not going to work. You're going to fail. Because that's what my ego's an asshole. Um, As well. My ego's name is Barry, by the way. No offense if I don't say Barry, but like, Barry is,

[00:45:51] Rosie: Damn you,

[00:45:52] Barry. Hm.

[00:45:56] Katie: named my ego.

[00:45:57] I did that many years ago. Now

[00:46:01] Rosie: Hm.

[00:46:03] Katie: I actually start talking to him when I'm not in a high position. Sensitive, highly sensitive, like, feeling overwhelmed or anything like that, but I would just be like, Barry, I know you're trying to, like, protect me, but I think you should shut up. Like, you know? Because that's what they're trying, like, your ego's trying to do that.

[00:46:20] Like, especially when you're doing something new, like we are, like, new things. He's gonna be like, I don't think you should put money into that van there, Rosie. That's not really a smart thing to do. You know? I mean, how are you gonna pay that off? Like, you know, all the things. Like, Katie, you know how many credit cards you have?

[00:46:36] Do you really need all those credit cards? You Yeah, Barry, yeah, but one of them's, you know, I'm not going to explain it to you, Barry, because you're just trying to protect,

[00:46:44] Rosie: Right.

[00:46:46] Katie: like, over explaining is another one of my things that I was, I learned to stop doing this year, is to over explain the reason why I'm doing something, even to clients, or even to my parents, or to friends, like, you know, and that is a a key of my not a key a reaction.

[00:47:06] Nope, that's not the word either. What is the word? It's a reaction, I guess I'm just gonna use the word reaction, it's a reaction to shame and to feeling that you're not worthy. So I'm gonna explain, I'm gonna over explain something that you really could give two shits about. You're like, I don't care that you can't pay for this coffee, Katie, it's fine, I'll pay for it.

[00:47:29] Yeah, I'm gonna get paid, blah blah blah, I don't have any cash, blah blah blah, like that type of.

[00:47:35] Rosie: Yeah, shut up.

[00:47:36] Katie: Just shut up. Thank you for the coffee. Quick.

[00:47:56] Rosie: If this episode resonated with you at all, could I please ask that you share it with a friend who you think could get value from it?

[00:48:03] And whilst you're doing that, make sure you follow and subscribe to the podcast so that you never miss another episode. And whilst you're following or subscribing, please leave us a rating. Preferably five stars and also a written review doing each of these things is going to help this podcast, reach more people and impact more lives, which is at the end of the day is what we're here to do.

[00:48:29] Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Remember you matter. You're worth it. And you are so, so capable. Take care of yourself and I'll see you next week.