40: Building 4 businesses from scratch + the power of social selling with Heidi Medina

[00:00:00] Rosie: Welcome back to the pursuit of freedom podcast. I'm Rosie. I live in my van with my red dog, Tilly, in case you're new here. This episode is another good one. I'm not going to tell you anything, but it quick content warning. Our guest does mention her abusive background. Um, and domestic violence.

[00:00:19] So if that's something that is triggering for you, please give this one a miss. You can come back another time. If you feel ready. Or just don't come back. And wait for the next episode. I love you. You're worth it. You're so, so capable and let's roll the intro. Actually one little thing. I had my microphone levels.

[00:00:41] So out of whack for this recording, so please excuse the blowout. It's rather unpleasant. Luckily it's my guests talking most of the time. Please forgive me. I'm going to shut up now.

[00:00:53] G'day and welcome to the Pursuit of Freedom podcast. I'm your host, Rosie Burrows, and I'm on a journey to find my freedom so that I can help you do exactly the same. Join me each week as I share the stories of everyday people who found their own path to freedom. I'm not going to focus on job titles and accolades because I don't care about that stuff, and neither should you.

[00:01:17] I want to uncover what truly makes you tick. Who are you when you step away from society's expectations and follow your heart? I still haven't figured it out yet, have you? Either way, buckle up, because it's going to be one hell of a ride.

[00:01:36]

[00:01:36] Rosie: Welcome back to the podcast. It's a hot and muggy evening here in Australia.

[00:01:41] I've got my fan blasting on me. I've got a bottle of choccy milk. I got my water bottle here and joining me is Heidi Medina. Help me give her a very warm welcome. Heidi has always lived outside the status quo. She started a business in high school with her sister. That business is still running today. She had a six figure business by the age of 25.

[00:02:04] It was a multiple six figure business, wasn't it? I better get that right. And you are now on your fourth business outside of entrepreneurship, you know, you got out of an abusive relationship and you started from scratch to build the life of your dreams. And you're now living in Portugal, leading a lifestyle and business that doesn't depend on the location.

[00:02:26] And it lets you travel with your husband three to four months out of the year. It sounds amazing. Heidi, welcome. I'm so excited to have you here.

[00:02:35] Heidi: so much for having me, Rosie. And yeah, it's, it's a dream to be living in a location, independent lifestyle and business. I mean, so cool. Last year I was broadcasting from a terrace in Italy with all my clients.

[00:02:50] Rosie: Wow. That's amazing, but I'm sure it took work to get to where you are. So can you take us back? What were you like as a little girl? And how did this entrepreneurship journey start? Hmm. Mm

[00:03:09] Heidi: been in entrepreneurship. So even my grandparents were that way. And I think I just got the bug from them. So I've always been doing something. I had my little version of the lemonade stand as a little girl at age nine for the whole summer. I picked and sold wildflower bouquets at the family produce stand for the whole summer.

[00:03:29] And it was so funny because my parents wouldn't let me spend the money. I had to put it in my bank account. I was so mad at them. But anyway, I had my whole business. I ran it the whole summer between school and everything. And that was the first time, outside of working in the family business, that I, I think I caught the bug then. It was at 13 when my sister and I started that next business

[00:03:54] that my dad still runs today. And then my first, as I like to call it, my adult business, I started at age 21.

[00:04:02] I didn't work well in the corporate world as an employee though. I didn't do that stint as well. So

[00:04:09] Rosie: But you did give the corporate world a go. Like, how was that for you?

[00:04:15] Heidi: honestly. I hated it.

[00:04:18] Rosie: Mm, mm

[00:04:20] Heidi: It was too restrictive for me. The way my brain works, the way I work and stuff, I need a lot more freedom. And I get, I get the work done. I get in, I don't mind teamwork. I don't mind any of those kind of things. But the rules and the way corporate world expects you to work and, It just didn't work for me.

[00:04:39] I didn't make a good employee. I like to ask questions,

[00:04:42] which is a big no no. Even in management, which is when I was in a corporate they still don't want a lot of questions or

[00:04:50] you question, trying different things or that's outside their comfort box and that kind of stuff. So it just didn't work well.

[00:04:57] And I, I'm not one of those people. I was always in a salaried, Employee from being a management corporate. So you're expected to be there 50, 60 hours a week.

[00:05:08] But the way I work, I can get in and I can get a full day's work done in five, six hours. That's just how my

[00:05:14] brain works. And then after that, I'm just piddling around and that's just no fun.

[00:05:19] Rosie: So how long did you last in the corporate world? Because it sounds like, like you said, it just wasn't for you. You asked too many questions. How dare you?

[00:05:28] Heidi: Well, I actually started out working as an employee at age 18 when I quit working with the family business for a while and then that actually blessed me into my first business. But

[00:05:40] the corporate world was after owning that 1st business as an adult, when I walked away from it and started over. So I was in it for about 2, 2, 1, half years.

[00:05:50] Two different companies because I, one, I started in North Carolina, working with them, and then when I started my life over completely, moving to Colorado I started out working in another corporate work there. And so, yeah, I gave it a good stand somewhere between 2 and 2 and a half years, and it just.

[00:06:09] It wasn't it literally wasn't for me. It's like the one I started out in Colorado They actually brought me in to shake things up They they needed to with their company and stuff. And so we I shook things up profits were up Expenses were

[00:06:23] down. I mean we had happy clients We're picking them up and then they came in and just shut it all down I wanted to go to the original program, even though things were going well, and it just didn't You It just didn't work.

[00:06:40] Rosie: That resonates with me. I feel like I'm similar. But I'd love to know, because you'd already had your business. So what made you try this corporate world? Was it something you wanted to do?

[00:06:53] Heidi: Honestly, I didn't know what I wanted to do. So I've been 13 years in the multi six figure business. It was a big landscape company on the East coast in North Carolina.

[00:07:03] And we worked mostly with big CEOs, movie stars people like that in that industry, but 13 years in it, the business got just got, I left the business because of divorce.

[00:07:17] And just an abusive lifestyle with family, growing up abusive ex at that point, and stuff like that. So when I started over, I walked away literally from everything. I had what everybody considers the American dream. We had the big custom built home. We had toys, you know, boats, motorcycles. I raced cars and bikes at that point.

[00:07:40] You know, beautiful house, beautiful life, big business that I loved, but I wasn't happy.

[00:07:51] And it's an abusive lifestyle. Once I finally woke up to the fact that it wasn't normal, it was time to get out. And I couldn't get out and take my business with me

[00:08:00] at that point. And I couldn't take my life with me at that point. So I had to make the decision of starting over. And in the meantime, it was like.

[00:08:10] What I do, I, I, I'm leaving this. I hadn't, it was a very abusive past relationship, so I had no choice of walking away from the business, which also meant I was walking away from my income had been my income for 13 years. And so I didn't really have a choice except to go into the job world to start creating income quickly

[00:08:28] again. So that's what put me in it. And also just figuring out what am I going to do next? I

[00:08:35] mean, what do you do next? I mean, you've been your own boss for 13 years. You telling everybody else what to do and everything. And I got an offer from another big landscape company on the East Coast to come in and manage the entire department and everything.

[00:08:51] And so I was like, okay, cool. And that's what started that process of going down that road for a little while.

[00:08:59] Rosie: Yeah,

[00:09:00] Heidi: I have to say this is one place where the 2008 recession was actually a blessing in a sense that it got me

[00:09:07] laid off. And during it, I couldn't get another job at that point because I was putting in hundreds of applications.

[00:09:15] So I, at that point, started my second business, which was a housecleaning business for a few

[00:09:21] years.

[00:09:23] Rosie: Yeah. And I remember you telling me the first time we spoke that everybody thought you would never succeed with a cleaning business because there's so much competition. So how did you deal with all that pushback and how did you succeed?

[00:09:39] Heidi: Well, and that was even the big thing. I started it during the 2008 recession, which was even bigger. Why? Everybody said it wouldn't

[00:09:45] succeed

[00:09:46] because all housecleaning is a luxury business, but. I was laid off from corporate world. I still, you know, I hadn't recovered savings yet from coming out of divorce and all that kind of

[00:09:58] stuff and recession, it sucked for a lot of people for a little while.

[00:10:03] And so it was one of those things. What can I do that doesn't cost a ton of money to get in that I have talent I can do. Obviously, I wasn't getting back into landscaping at that point, because

[00:10:17] that was a luxury. People did plant their own plants at that point in time. Big

[00:10:21] corporations held off on installing new landscapes.

[00:10:26] But people think that house cleaning is a luxury business. But in reality, I mean, one of my first clients was a pregnant lady Couldn't do her own housecleaning.

[00:10:35] And then I picked up some corporate people, management people, who worked all day so they wanted to come home to a clean house. So

[00:10:42] it turned out it's not as much of a luxury as people think and So it just worked.

[00:10:49] I mean, I just got my marketing right. I was marketing on Craigslist. Did they have Craigslist where you are?

[00:10:55] Rosie: That's a good question. I actually don't know. I know what it is. I don't think it exists here, but I haven't checked

[00:11:03] Heidi: Yeah, well, back then that was my first foray into online marketing. I mean, before that, I've always done organic marketing, like my, my

[00:11:12] landscape company had a two year waiting list to work with us, but

[00:11:15] it was all through organic marketing, but then it was all like word of mouth referrals and things like that, you know,

[00:11:21] and actually occasionally a neighbor would come over while you're working.

[00:11:24] Hey, I love what you're doing to this yard. Will you come to my yard? That kind of thing. And so

[00:11:30] my cleaning business was my first time getting online and doing online marketing. And I started on Craigslist cause once again, it's free. And I'm, I'm broke

[00:11:38] at that point. And I just kept tweaking the ad to all of a sudden I was just getting calls, right?

[00:11:45] And left.

[00:11:45] And it worked out so cool because I ended up with some amazing clients for four years. Cause that was how long that business lasted

[00:11:54] is one of those things where I ended up. It was good when it lasted and I had a freak accident of, I can't even, I know everybody's like, you need to make up a cool story.

[00:12:04] You're in Colorado. Just tell everybody that you broke the ankle skiing, but I actually missed a step walking down the steps. It ended up breaking my ankle.

[00:12:12] Rosie: No.

[00:12:13] Heidi: So no housecleaning for me for a bit. So that was the end of that one.

[00:12:19] Rosie: let's talk about risk for a moment, because I feel like risk is an inherent part of business. Would you agree with that?

[00:12:27] Heidi: Absolutely. I spent, I mean, It's funny though, because this is something I've been witnessing over the past few months, because,

[00:12:36] You know, economy's weird in a lot of places. A lot of people are scared because we've been being pumped in the media for almost a year now. Recession is coming, this, that, and everything, and maybe it is.

[00:12:48] We don't know, but it definitely hasn't fully hit yet. But people, I've seen a lot of people who were in their own businesses have gone back to jobs.

[00:12:58] Because they feel that the job is less risky than owning your own business. But, is it today? I don't think so.

[00:13:06] Rosie: Mm.

[00:13:08] Heidi: but being a business owner, it is a lot riskier in the sense you are responsible for making all the decisions.

[00:13:15] It's up to you to get up every day and sell and, and motivate yourself and show

[00:13:21] up to do the work. And actually, if you get sick or you break an ankle, like I did there, I mean, I could have hired somebody to take the place, but it kind of run its course for me too, at that point, because I had

[00:13:32] Rosie: Mm

[00:13:33] Heidi: during the time of doing that business, I had started.

[00:13:37] My third business

[00:13:39] Rosie: Oh, wow.

[00:13:40] Heidi: It's funny I always said I would be a writer one day

[00:13:44] I was a kid and I did so well with the Marketing with the craigslist and stuff that and then I was also I had started my own food blog during all that time

[00:13:57] And I just really loved the content writing side of things So while I was building that cleaning company, I was also building a side business of doing content writing.

[00:14:09] I mean, so I had that going anyway. So when it happened, that was just the motivation to realize fully my dream of having a location, independent lifestyle and business.

[00:14:20] Rosie: Mm.

[00:14:21] Heidi: almost like, yeah, you don't want to go break your ankle, but it was almost a blessing. Because it

[00:14:26] kicked me fully into that.

[00:14:29] What can I do that I don't physically have to be there?

[00:14:32] And

[00:14:35] Rosie: I mean it's interesting that's come up a couple of times in this conversation already you know these kind of difficult situations or curveballs that life throws at you and they turn out in a strange way to be a blessing

[00:14:48] It it can feel overwhelming though sometimes in those situations how did you turn it around and turn it into such a blessing?

[00:14:58] Heidi: that's the, you know, sometimes the hard part, because we can look at it as just a hardship. And we can sit here and be angry about it and things like that. I mean, I can take this even back to growing up abused and things like that. I've been able to turn a lot of that into find the blessings that came out of it too, because I think the perspective is you can wallow in it and be angry and stay angry and hurt and all this kind of stuff. You're only hurting yourself when you do that. So if you can find, turn it around and start healing and, you know, forgive whoever or forgive yourself, whatever it is.

[00:15:40] It's not just the blame, the shame, the guilt, all that kind of stuff that goes along with that stuff. It does. And I'm not going to say it doesn't well up at times for me with certain things because it does.

[00:15:49] But

[00:15:50] Rosie: Mm.

[00:15:51] Heidi: when you can find the blessings of it, you can really start moving forward, realizing that, Hey, yeah, it wasn't ideal that happened at that point, but did something better come out of it?

[00:16:03] I just think that's so much deeper than Yeah, I just guess i've never been a person to sit there and want to wallow in it and be a victim of it and stuff Like that that bot that is something I just don't I don't buy into it I mean i'm not gonna say I don't have my pity party moments and you know, but I do I i'm human I I have all that

[00:16:23] Rosie: Right.

[00:16:24] Heidi: I'll have my bad day where i'm just like, oh my god That's going right for me, you know, I do know that but but It's just like with that, I mean, if I hadn't have broke my ankle, I'm, I'm not so sure, because I had been in business as my entire life, even growing up on the family produce farm, that was physical.

[00:16:42] I had to be there. So I'm not so sure that if I hadn't have done that, and out of need of not, of needing to do something that didn't physically require me there, that would I have taken that leap? I'm not sure.

[00:16:56] Rosie: It's a refreshing perspective, I think. And I'd love to hear your advice on how to, I'm not sure if the word is get out, but how to move through and try to move forward from, you the shitty situation. I know for me at the moment, I'm having a bit of a hard time settling my mum's estate.

[00:17:17] And you know, I push through it, but some days it just, I just go, fuck this. You know, it's too hard. I want to have a tantrum. So what's your advice for, I think we do need those moments, but what's your advice for actually making it productive and moving forward?

[00:17:34] Heidi: Well, I think the first part is have that moment. I think in a

[00:17:37] lot of things, we were taught to, we're told by society and stuff, suppress it and, and you're not supposed to deal, have negative emotions and feelings and things like that. But guess what? I mean, when it comes to emotions and feelings, I don't remember the exact numbers, but I know we have more negative ones than we do positive ones.

[00:17:59] Naturally in our body, and that's just how we're wired for protection, survival, all that kind of stuff.

[00:18:05] So, I think have your moment, but don't wallow in it, don't stay in it, like, give yourself permission, okay? Like, sometimes I would give myself permission, I'm just gonna have a day where I'm, I'm gonna just sit back, I'm gonna, I'm gonna eat junk food, and I'm gonna binge watch some show on Netflix that makes me, You know, either feel more pity for myself or actually feel better.

[00:18:29] I mean, such as,

[00:18:30] I don't know if you guys have the Hallmark channel where you got all the lovely, like feel good movies, you know, those kinds of stuff, they're, they're so, you know, those plot line, but by the end, you

[00:18:40] still feel good anyway. So some days I'll, I'll just binge watch those, but

[00:18:45] I think the big thing is embracing it first, have the feeling, and then start moving on.

[00:18:53] I do a lot of journaling to get it out. I go ahead, rather than try to keep it in my head, I just go ahead and write out what I'm thinking, what I'm saying, no matter how ugly it is, and just

[00:19:04] get it out. And that makes such a difference because I think sometimes we don't get to say We're not given a platform always to say what we're thinking, what we're feeling, what's going on with us, and writing allows you to do that.

[00:19:20] Rosie: Mm

[00:19:21] Heidi: you to get it out, but get it out, or if you have somebody you can talk to about it, do talk about it, and then start looking at where the positives are, what comes out of it. Start switching it around.

[00:19:35] I mean, for a minute, I could tell you when I broke my ankle at first, I was down about it and stuff.

[00:19:40] And then I started, I realized, you know, probably about a year after end of the content writing business, I was like, Oh crap. If I hadn't have done that, I wouldn't be here where I'm at today. I'd still be cleaning somebody else's toilet. Nothing wrong with that. I get more power to people who clean. I respect that.

[00:19:56] Been there, done that. Respect it too. But, but is it something I wanted to keep doing? No. So I think you just.

[00:20:06] Rosie: Feel the feelings.

[00:20:08] Heidi: Yeah.

[00:20:08] feel the feelings, have the feelings. Don't try to repress them because they're going to come up at some point anyway. And I think that's the

[00:20:14] big thing people miss is. Okay, I don't want to, I don't want to cry right now. I don't want to break down. Well,

[00:20:22] you bottle that stuff up it's gonna come out at some point and usually it's the absolute worst point possible because you

[00:20:29] either be in the middle of a crowd or something that it comes out whether it's because you're

[00:20:33] angry or you finally do break and it's so instead if you go ahead and start dealing with that stuff throughout then It's easier,

[00:20:43] and you need to get help, get professional help.

[00:20:46] I mean,

[00:20:47] after coming out of abusive past relationship and abusive lifestyle growing up with my parents and siblings and stuff, I had six years of therapy. If you need

[00:20:59] therapy, get therapy. There is no shame in that.

[00:21:03] Rosie: Yeah. And if you're comfortable talking about it I'd like to dig in more to the topic of abuse because you mentioned earlier that you didn't know it wasn't normal and I think a lot of people either haven't had that realisation yet or have recently come to realise that and go Shit, this is not okay.

[00:21:27] So when was the I don't know if you'd call it a lightbulb moment. Was it a sudden moment? You went, whoa, or was it a gradual realisation?

[00:21:37] Heidi: It was, it was, was probably gradually coming, but it was a sudden moment. It was right around my 28th birthday.

[00:21:46] Rosie: Mm hmm.

[00:21:46] Heidi: And, and yeah, I grew up in it. I mean, it was from, I remember times when I was very, very young. I mean, one of the big incidents I remember, I don't really want to go into detail, but I was

[00:21:58] three. So it was normal for me, which is also why I married into it, because I didn't realize it wasn't normal. And so many

[00:22:07] people ask the question, why didn't you get out? You didn't have to stay and this kind of stuff. But sometimes you, you don't know what you don't know. You don't know what you're not

[00:22:17] aware of.

[00:22:18] And if you've been raised in that environment and what's going on is normal, even

[00:22:23] when it's violent but it's normal. You don't. You don't realize, you just don't know.

[00:22:31] Rosie: Mm

[00:22:31] Heidi: But I think I was coming to the realization all the time that it was coming, that it wasn't normal, and I didn't need to live like this because I was miserable.

[00:22:43] I mean, I was absolutely miserable. I was living everybody else's dream, and that's hard to say, because like I said, here it is, I have the American dream of all this beautiful, You know, fancy house, big cars, trucks, awesome business

[00:23:00] and everything. And why wasn't I happy? Because I was in an abusive situation.

[00:23:05] I mean, both at home with my ex and with my family, because that didn't even stop as I became an adult. It was

[00:23:13] still, the family was really close and there wasn't a lot of outside. And yeah, but 28, all of a sudden it was like this giant light bulb went on that this wasn't normal. It wasn't okay. And then I did spend four years.

[00:23:29] It took four years to safely get out. And also it was, I'm not, I'm not a quitter on things. And I also, it was my family. And even

[00:23:38] with my ex, there was this, can we get help? Can we try something and do, but. You can't do anything when nobody else wants to change.

[00:23:48] Rosie: Right.

[00:23:49] Heidi: So there has to be, everybody has to want to change and try.

[00:23:53] And when there isn't anything from that point of view, then you just got to move on because you got to do what's safe for you at that point. And that's the hardest decision I ever had to make in the sense

[00:24:05] that I walked away from my family. I'm in, I've been estranged from all of my family, except one of my sisters for 13 years now.

[00:24:15] And.

[00:24:16] I think the hardest part is my mom passed away this past October and, and it was hard. It was still

[00:24:23] hard, even knowing that. So, but you

[00:24:27] gotta do what you gotta do to take care of yourself.

[00:24:30] Rosie: Right. Yeah. And, you know, I can't speak from experience, but I love what you said. You've got to take care of yourself.

[00:24:37] Heidi: Yeah,

[00:24:38] Rosie: And I think it's really important for people like me who don't have first hand experience to remember that this isn't easy. It's not like one day you get up and leave. I know for you, it was a four year process to get out safely.

[00:24:50] And then you went into hiding for two years. Like this is a huge deal.

[00:24:56] Heidi: it really is. And people don't realize because they, they, there's a naivety that the System will protect you and stuff like that. Well,

[00:25:05] I hate to say it, but Restraint on order is not going to stop a bullet.

[00:25:10] That sounds rough. And a lot of people are like, well, aren't you being dramatic with that? No, I went into two years into hiding from my ex for a reason. It wasn't, I mean, no one knew my address, not even my family except for one

[00:25:23] sister. There was no one actually had my address for two years. I literally moved from North Carolina to Colorado to put a ton of distance in there. Because he was showing up at my workplace my boss had to actually come out one day when he showed up at the workplace and tell him never to come back.

[00:25:42] And you know, there's, you don't want that kind of stuff in your life.

[00:25:46] You just don't. And then we had restraining orders, but in the cops were trying to actually get his guns and he would never be quote home.

[00:25:55] So there was a lot of stuff going on that it's. People are like, oh, well, you just get out. Well, you know, it's not that easy.

[00:26:04] Rosie: huh.

[00:26:04] Heidi: Always you have to make decisions as to how you can get out and and still be okay.

[00:26:11] Rosie: Yeah. I'm making a bit of an assumption here, but I imagine shame might play a role in, in realizing that, you know, you've been in a, an abusive relationship. Is that something you went through or continue to go through?

[00:26:29] Heidi: It does come back in waves at times. Shame, blame, and guilt. All, all three of those do come back at times because yeah, you're like, I mean, looking back, because hindsight is always 20 20, as they like to say, looking back, I could see this, those, the symptoms, but at the same time, I was still in the complete nuclear of the family, which had similar dynamics.

[00:26:54] So now that I know it's not okay, you know, but then I didn't know, and it's, But it's still, I mean, there's still like, why did I allow this to happen to me?

[00:27:09] Rosie: Mm hmm.

[00:27:10] Heidi: you know, and I'm gonna say too, and this is a hard part that I've really been doing lately, because I grew up in an abusive relationship. I'm not gonna say there's not times I didn't abuse my siblings, or I didn't abuse

[00:27:23] maybe my partner in my relationship, because I didn't know any better.

[00:27:27] And now that I do, I look back and, you know, that makes me feel extremely horrible. So there's multiple facets of this. And I'm working with a mindset coach now, and as she keeps reminding me, you cannot be aware of anything you're not aware of. But once you become aware, that's when. You know, then you really bear culpability at that point,

[00:27:49] but it still doesn't always take away the, you know, the effects of that.

[00:27:55] And

[00:27:56] Rosie: Right.

[00:27:57] Heidi: I mean, it was in that dynamic for 32 years. And then once I got out, I moved and everything. And then it took another, I think three years before I fully cut my family out. And so it was in that dynamic for a while and it took, it took a lot of, that's why the six years of therapy there as a therapist, teaching me what's actually the right way to respond

[00:28:21] in

[00:28:21] Rosie: And I mean, only six years for 32 years worth of abuse, I mean, that's amazing, really.

[00:28:28] Heidi: I mean, but yeah, I had to be taught all those things you know,

[00:28:31] how to communicate in a way, in a relationship that's still loving and still getting your point across without,

[00:28:38] You know, being abusive or just. Things you didn't learn from the system you were in. It's, it's, it's, yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:53] Rosie: It's a lot. I guess I, I will move on to another topic, but one more thing I'd like to ask is, do you have any advice for people who are maybe in an abusive situation that have realized it, they want to get out, but they're just not sure what to do next? Is there any advice you might want to share with those people?

[00:29:18] Heidi: I mean, the biggest thing is to get yourself out safely and don't beat yourself up if that time is not the time yet.

[00:29:25] Rosie: Right.

[00:29:27] Heidi: But do it as soon as you can, and then find people that can help you and support you. Honestly, for me, moving was the solution. I, I would think that would be a way for a lot of people to just get themselves out of this situation.

[00:29:40] Because when I continued living in the hometown, after I got out, I lived there for almost 18 months before I moved. I literally, I, I had to worry about him showing up or, you know, and that kind of stuff. So moving was probably one of the best things I could do.

[00:29:57] But the biggest thing is, is just do what you need to do.

[00:30:02] And because everybody's situation is different,

[00:30:04] do get out, do get out, with help if possible. And one of the big things I couldn't do that I would recommend it. Somebody is, if you can sock money away in account somewhere

[00:30:16] else, I didn't have that option, but. It would have been a really smart move if I could have done it.

[00:30:24] But do it in whatever way you need to do it because everybody's situation will be different. And use the Use law enforcement as much as you can. Don't, go to them faster rather than

[00:30:40] than wait. I mean, I did think we could try at first because it seemed like we could talk it through and, and we can maybe get, you know, separate Once again, being naive, thinking I could help communicate and this kind of stuff, and we could

[00:30:57] talk it out instead, should have gone to law enforcement faster.

[00:31:01] Not that it helped, I mean, it didn't stop the stalking, it didn't stop him showing up.

[00:31:05] So whatever your situation is, just do it though and try to find help. I mean, it's hard to say because I've seen so many different situations and I, I know

[00:31:16] how mine was that. There wasn't like a prescribed option you could do

[00:31:20] other than do get out.

[00:31:22] Don't stay in it.

[00:31:23] Rosie: Right.

[00:31:24] Heidi: way to get out and do it as safely as you possibly can. Whatever that looks like, do it.

[00:31:29] Rosie: Yeah. And I think that's really powerful. There isn't a one size fits all solution, but, you know, I love your advice. It's simple. Get out and do it safely. And it might not be right now, but yeah, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I just want to say, thank you so much for being so vulnerable and open about that.

[00:31:50] Like, I think, I think that's going to help a lot of people and it's definitely opened my eyes a little bit to what it might be like and just the difficulty of it, you know, leaving that relationship, but also cutting the family out and like, that's a big deal. So yeah,

[00:32:05] Heidi: I mean, I had to start over completely. New friends, new everything. And on my own. I mean, it made me

[00:32:12] stronger. But I mean, I literally moved to somewhere where I knew no one. So, yeah. I had some help. My dad lent me the money to put the, you know, the deposit down on rent, things like that. And then

[00:32:26] my brother gave me his credit card to do the gas to drive all the way across country with my stuff and things like that. So I did have some help from the family at that point.

[00:32:37] I'm not saying everything was bad with my family, but it was definitely a dynamic relationship. In a sense

[00:32:43] that it didn't shift from the abuse that was there and and if once again found the blessings in growing up with some of that stuff and that work out too,

[00:32:52] but But yeah,

[00:32:55] it's you know, it's It is what it is.

[00:33:00] Rosie: Yeah. Yep. Very true. Let's fast forward to

[00:33:06] Heidi: Yeah.

[00:33:08] Rosie: Your husband was laid off in 2015.

[00:33:11] Heidi: Yeah.

[00:33:12] Rosie: Tell us a bit about the blessing that came out of that.

[00:33:17] Heidi: Yeah, so this was husband number two. Let's make that clear.

[00:33:20] Rosie: Yes. Sorry. Clarify.

[00:33:22] Heidi: Colorado, I met this really great guy. He actually chased me around for a while. I was happy being single, wasn't looking for a man. So he chased me around for a while, finally convinced me to go out with him, and I ended up I'm marrying him eventually.

[00:33:36] But 2015, he got laid off. He works oil and gas, he's the engineer in oil and gas. And every time oil prices drop, they lay off. That's just the normal part of their business.

[00:33:48] And we had always talked about traveling and seeing the world some and everything. And he comes home the day he, this guy, he's amazing with his spreadsheets. He actually had warning. They were going to lay him off. I think they gave him like a week warning because this wasn't, you know,

[00:34:13] this was just literally, it wasn't that they weren't coming back or anything like that. It was just like, we're laying you off right now. You know, go get on unemployment and do your thing

[00:34:23] and you'll be back in a few months.

[00:34:25] And so he gave him time to put together this spreadsheet where he had calculated all our savings. The cost of rent and living in Denver and because Denver, Colorado is very expensive to live It's gotten even worse since we moved away but He figured out that we could travel Like we talked about and see Europe for less cost per month than we were living in Denver And

[00:34:51] he put a whole spreadsheet together.

[00:34:53] It comes home. He makes the announcement. Well, honey, you know, I got laid off He's like it's honestly probably gonna be eight months to a year before this comes back and then he pops out his little spreadsheet And he's like I figured out we can finally go travel the way we want to At first I like I go into a little bit of my little freak out mode of like no You need to go get a job.

[00:35:15] It's time

[00:35:16] to go and apply it and this is that and he's like, honey We've always talked about doing this. What do you need to feel safe so that we can go do this? And I was like I was like why we need a certain amount of money in the savings account And you know, we need to make sure we can take care of everything and we can pay our bills He's like, I've already done the math on that.

[00:35:37] Check the spreadsheet out. He was right. So it took me about two days of sitting there and had to come to terms with it and everything

[00:35:45] that we were going to uproot everything and go do this. I was already doing the content work online. I had it probably about part time at that point because I did a bunch of volunteering and stuff too, so I had about part time income coming in. So it was just like, okay, and we did it. I mean, we literally, we packed up our two bedroom flat into a storage unit. We got rid of a lot of stuff, but we still a lot of it because we were coming back. The goal was to go for a year and come

[00:36:16] Rosie: right?

[00:36:17] Heidi: because then his job would be back and everything else.

[00:36:20] So we packed it all up in a storage unit and it was two and a half years before we came back. And we only came back because his dad got diagnosed with cancer and we, we need to

[00:36:32] be back in Denver for a bit. It was the funniest thing to unpacking that storage unit where we came back because we had been living for two and a half years out of a carry on and a backpack each. That

[00:36:45] was it. Yeah, because we, we, our first trip out of the U. S. was a trip that we took in 2014, and, and Lutonzo lost our luggage

[00:36:56] Rosie: Oh.

[00:36:57] Heidi: for six days while we were in

[00:36:59] Florence and Rome for the first time. I had

[00:37:02] none of the pretty clothes I planned, but courtesy of our travel insurance, I had a whole new wardrobe from Italy.

[00:37:09] Rosie: Oh, wonderful.

[00:37:11] Heidi: So, but 2015 was the start of that. And what we did is we slow traveled. We did 1 month in each location in most

[00:37:19] cases. So, we started out in Italy, went to Portugal from there with Spain. And then Schengen Zone in Europe has a 90 day and 90 day out rule.

[00:37:33] So we were supposed to be for our next 90 day out, we were supposed to be going to Turkey.

[00:37:38] We had the visas, we'd done everything, but there was all of a sudden a bunch of bombings and things like that.

[00:37:44] And just violence was splurting up, so we were like, okay, where are we going next? And so we switched to Morocco for three months.

[00:37:51] Rosie: mm-Hmm.

[00:37:52] Heidi: And then during all that, we do house sitting and we were also doing, I don't know, have you heard of work away company called

[00:38:00] work away? That's where you do a you, you exchange work of some sort for room and board. And we

[00:38:08] wanted to try this. Oh, my God. It was the most amazing thing we did. Oh, so we, this is one of those places where I had this, this dream.

[00:38:18] I always wanted to own a B& B and we decided when work away, you have the options of like, you can work for hotels, you can work for farms. There was even this salt farm you could go do that we considered doing, and all these things you could go do. So we did three different places. We did a small hotel in France.

[00:38:39] It was sort of like a B& B style. It had a restaurant in it and all this kind of stuff.

[00:38:45] Really cool thing. It had like nine rooms. Really neat. So we did that. And then the next stop was two different ones in Italy. We did one that was a self contained apartment style. Where I was actually the chef.

[00:39:00] Rosie: Wow.

[00:39:01] Heidi: Yeah, that was really cool for the part of the summer there.

[00:39:04] And then the next one was an agritourism farm where they literally everything's produced on site for the hotel. All the food, I mean everything, they grew everything from the eggs and the chickens to the pork to the cows, lamb even, was all done on site.

[00:39:21] Rosie: Wow.

[00:39:22] Heidi: I did learn I don't want to be a bee, but the experience was amazing because we got to do these unique things because when you do the Workaway, you live with the family and you eat with the family and they take you to local events we never would have known about otherwise. And, you know, it was just an incredible time of doing that because it also allowed me to keep working with my online business at that point, which was still growing.

[00:39:54] It was amazing. So we did the two and a half years were spent between Europe, Morocco, the UK, and then we actually were traveling in the U. S. to places we hadn't been yet.

[00:40:05] Rosie: Mm.

[00:40:05] Heidi: So it was an amazing experience and that's what ended up getting us into Portugal, actually. Well,

[00:40:14] Rosie: Yeah. So tell me more about that.

[00:40:17] Heidi: We ended up back because we went back to the States Colorado for his dad for a year.

[00:40:23] David went back to work. He went back to the oil and gas industry.

[00:40:27] Rosie: No.

[00:40:28] Heidi: He loved that taste of freedom though.

[00:40:31] Rosie: I bet. Yep.

[00:40:34] Heidi: So after about a year of that, his dad was doing okay and stuff. So we had decided by that point, we actually wanted to live in Europe and we had decided we wanted to get a European passport, have two passports.

[00:40:48] And so we started looking as to where could we do it, have dual passports, keep our U. S.

[00:40:53] citizenship, because like, Spain, you can't do that.

[00:40:56] Italy, you can't. So we decided, okay, what country checks all the boxes, because we needed to have high speed internet, because I was full time in business online by that point. and we had spent time in Italy where I hear the system has upgraded since, but back then the internet system could go down for two or three days.

[00:41:16] And

[00:41:17] Rosie: Oh, wow.

[00:41:18] Heidi: love the Italians. I love their laid backness in life, but they'd be like, okay, just go have some wine at the cafe and just don't worry about it. That didn't work for my business though.

[00:41:30] Rosie: yeah.

[00:41:30] Heidi: So it was like, we knew Italy was out, even though we were in love with it. And Portugal, though, has this amazingly fast internet and infrastructure and the people, the culture, the country is absolutely gorgeous all the way across.

[00:41:45] And we can have dual citizenship. And so

[00:41:48] we were like, okay, Portugal checks all the boxes.

[00:41:52] So that's how we ended up here. This is, this past October was B5 years. And we'll be

[00:41:59] able to start the application now for citizenship this coming year.

[00:42:05] Rosie: Wow. So tell me about the business you've got that has allowed this lifestyle.

[00:42:13] Heidi: Well, I started out my third business, which was the, I did content and social media. Blog and social media content for big corporations. And then I kept, you know, I've always been a business owner and I was watching business owners struggle and stuff. And I was on LinkedIn as my main platform for connecting with my clients at that point.

[00:42:33] And everybody kept asking me questions. I mean, I started out spending two to three hours a day in DMs, answering people's questions of.

[00:42:41] How I was getting clients on LinkedIn, how I was able to build my visibility the way I was doing things like that. So it started out, it was just like, it's one of those things that kind of fell in my lap thing again.

[00:42:52] And I had this lady, another coach, she invited me on to do guest speaking for her group. But the problem was was that she's like, you cannot come in as a business coach. Cause I was thinking about going into business coaching then. But she says, because I'm a business coach and I don't want another one coming in.

[00:43:16] She's like, but you're great on LinkedIn. You're already doing the work on LinkedIn, specializing that. And so she challenged me to put together a course and I put together a five day LinkedIn challenge in like less than and launched it in less than six weeks.

[00:43:33] Rosie: Yeah, wow.

[00:43:34] Heidi: Just so I could speak in her

[00:43:36] Rosie: wow. Wow.

[00:43:39] Heidi: was that challenge in that had already been answering questions in DM for 2 to 3 hours a day.

[00:43:44] It got me into I went into 1st. It was just linked in coaching. With some business coaching on the side and then I had this little spell of oh my god I don't want to be just a LinkedIn coach Everything I do is bigger and what I do with I ended up in social media marketing because I love it I absolutely love it and I'm good at it. And so I just wanted to help so many small businesses and can't get enough clients and stuff through necessarily in person or they don't have a social media presence, which today is necessary no matter what business you're in. And I kept running into all these people. I mean, even like you who want location independent lifestyles and the only way to do that is if you're online.

[00:44:27] And so I

[00:44:27] just really wanted to support these small business owners to get more clients, to get in front of them easier. And, Where else can you do it for the price you could do it on social media? I mean if you don't have money for ads and stuff, and I only do organic it's time investment, of course.

[00:44:44] But I also because I love it because of the relationship building side of things which has always worked best for me. And so I just, that's, I got into helping people do that. So, and I've come back around and specialize in LinkedIn.

[00:44:59] Rosie: it. Yeah. funny. That

[00:45:06] Heidi: It's my platform.

[00:45:07] Rosie: Yeah. And I

[00:45:08] Heidi: It's maddening at times, but it's still my platform.

[00:45:12] Rosie: Tell me what you love so much about LinkedIn.

[00:45:17] Heidi: People are more willing to talk and have conversations. And that is, I, I specialize in the social selling side of social media marketing, which is not just posting content or cold pitching in DM. A lot of people think because they post content on LinkedIn or social media in general and if they make a sale that's social selling because it was on a social media platform, but it's not.

[00:45:40] Social selling is actually building relationships with people so that you can make sales or collaborations or partnerships and all this kind of stuff. So Yeah.

[00:45:51] so I just love that side. I love the conversations.

[00:45:54] I love getting to know people and I love being able to

[00:46:00] build a business that works longterm because you've built

[00:46:03] those relationships like 60 percent of my clients are repeat clients because I even continue after working with them to build the relationships.

[00:46:11] And that's what I help people do is to do that because. It's less expensive. Plus when people get to know you, the next offer out, yes, please. Can I have it? Because they trust you. So it's amazing. But in LinkedIn, LinkedIn allows that in ways that the other platforms, don't get me wrong, Facebook's my second platform and I love it as well, but LinkedIn, people on LinkedIn have more expectation of building a relationship of having a conversation

[00:46:42] Rosie: Yeah.

[00:46:43] Heidi: than a lot of the other platforms

[00:46:45] Rosie: Mm. So give me a bit of insight. to this social selling or how you sell. Because I, I'm on LinkedIn a little bit. I wouldn't say I'm really active, but I call it the pitch slap. I go into my inbox and there's like five messages from people that've added you. Some of them call me, sir. They don't even look at your profile and they, you know, they try to get you to buy something.

[00:47:07] And I just go really like, as if I'm going to buy from you. So I'm guessing that's not how you do things.

[00:47:16] Heidi: It's not, and that's not actually what social selling is, although a lot of us have been programmed to believe that, because that's what you see. And everybody's like, Oh, social selling is getting their DM and send a pitch. No, it's not. You don't pitch without permission in DM. Now, don't get me wrong.

[00:47:33] I've used cold pitching successfully to pitch the corporations that I used to work with and stuff. They did all of that

[00:47:39] through,

[00:47:41] through email. I believe the DM

[00:47:43] is

[00:47:43] personal space. To me, that's like walking up into somebody's house and just going

[00:47:49] ahead in their bedroom uninvited is how I feel the DM is.

[00:47:53] So if you if you're going to get a

[00:47:55] DM, And I I believe in this thing permission based marketing you get permission to be there. You don't just,

[00:48:03] you know, it's not that I

[00:48:04] won't send

[00:48:05] somebody a cold DM, but it could, it's, and if I do send them, I have a good reason for sending it. It's not because I'm sending a, Oh, here's.

[00:48:13] Selling in cold DMs, even sending out your freebie, your lead magnet, is still selling. People don't think about that either. No, it's free. No, it's not. They're giving you their email, which is a lot. But, yeah, it's not cold pitching in DMs. It's building the relationship outside of that first. Whether you're commenting on their

[00:48:36] content. They've commented on yours, so you start, start talking back to them. And then you can move it to DM because you've

[00:48:43] built that relationship. And the few occasions I've gone ahead and been able to jump into their DM cold per se, is because, like, occasionally somebody will have a, like, a really bad boo boo and a grammar mistake or something that, you know, you, they said a word in a way they don't want to say a word.

[00:49:00] I'll jump in if we're in there, but I'm not there to sell, you know, I'm there to, Hey, if you know this happened and I didn't want to call you out in public kind of thing. Or when people sign up for my live events, I'll sit, I'll jump into their DM and send a reminder, hey, this is happening, you know, that kind of stuff.

[00:49:18] But it's always with permission for the most part. It's, it's with the intent of building a relationship. Intention is everything with social selling. Is your intention to build a relationship or is it intention just to make a sale?

[00:49:32] Rosie: Mm.

[00:49:33] Heidi: if it's just to make a sale, it's from the wrong point of view.

[00:49:37] Selling is the side effect of good social selling.

[00:49:39] Rosie: Mm.

[00:49:41] Heidi: Instead, you can build it, and that's the thing is, a lot of people, they only focused on the sell, yet, do you know any cool collaborations I've gotten into? I mean, you and I, we've met on social media, here we are today talking, that

[00:49:56] wouldn't have happened if I was only, oh, my God, Rosie, I'm only going to talk to you if I want to, if you're going to buy

[00:50:02] Rosie: Right.

[00:50:04] Heidi: What if it never happened?

[00:50:05] Rosie: yeah,

[00:50:06] Heidi: You'd have been like, See ya!

[00:50:08] I, you know, I've got in January alone, I, I'm speaking at two summits in January. One of them, I was directly invited. I didn't have to do an application for because of what I do online. And she, we've built that relationship. And then I'm also doing three guest trainings for people's groups, and all of that came through building those relationships.

[00:50:34] So it's not just

[00:50:36] about making a sale because all of those things are going to make me more visible, which puts me in front of potentially more clients. Which of course is going to make me more sales.

[00:50:46] Rosie: Yeah, That is so powerful. And I mean, that's the kind of business I want to run, right. And, and how I would like to do sales, but I know there will be people listening and even me in the back of my mind going, well, building relationships is going to take too long. And I want money right now. What would you say to those people?

[00:51:08] Heidi: Realize that you're building a pipeline, and a pipeline when you're doing this, yes, some of this will take time. I mean, I had one person who came on as a client earlier this year that we had been talking for a little over a year before he came on. So, it is a patience game, but you also realize if you understand who your ideal client is, You understand their pain points.

[00:51:31] There are going to be people who are ready now.

[00:51:33] Rosie: mm-Hmm?

[00:51:34] Heidi: targeting a combination of the people

[00:51:37] across the

[00:51:38] board. You're targeting people who are ready now is really who you're actually targeting, but you're also nurturing

[00:51:46] those relationships that will equal sales later. So it's a combination across the board. And when you get the combination

[00:51:54] right

[00:51:55] Then you have

[00:51:55] people buying now and they continue buying through and you'll have people who become Even cheerleaders and putting your name out there and things like that Some people never buy from you. They just become a cheerleader because they love what you do

[00:52:10] Rosie: Mm-Hmm?

[00:52:10] Heidi: is cool, still cool.

[00:52:11] It's still visibility and we need support and especially online But then you're going to have people who like I mean with ash I mean he didn't come on for a little over a year of conversations back and forth And if he hadn't been willing to put those in he would he would have never signed as a client with me And that's just it a lot of people have got this in the back of their mind that if it doesn't happen after one or two Interactions then it's never going to happen and they give up

[00:52:39] Rosie: Mm.

[00:52:41] Heidi: It's programming.

[00:52:42] We have from the online world. There's, there's a lot of misconceptions in the online world that it's going to happen overnight. It's going to happen instantly. I'm going to reach out one time and they're going to buy. It doesn't work that way. It's having a plan for follow up your strategy and even running ads, it does not work that way.

[00:53:04] And that's what a lot of people don't realize that even with ads, if you aren't building relationships. I mean, unless you're somebody really famous. Which most of us are not.

[00:53:15] Rosie: fact. Yeah.

[00:53:18] Heidi: You're not going to say I've got this new offer and it's immediately going to sell if you haven't put the effort into building the audience and that relationship with those audiences. So I, I think it's always a combination of a little bit of

[00:53:34] laziness

[00:53:36] Rosie: mm.

[00:53:36] Heidi: is part of it. We, and we want it now and I mean, don't get me wrong.

[00:53:42] I, I want it now no better than anybody else on that.

[00:53:45] But

[00:53:46] it's also, we have to put in the effort. If you want to build a business that's going to last, you've got to put in the effort into building relationships.

[00:53:56] Rosie: Mm-Hmm.

[00:53:57] Heidi: And I don't care how much money you have in it and stuff like that. I mean. You do see bro marketing style, which is these guys that go and it's not just guys, it's women too.

[00:54:07] And this is

[00:54:08] universal when I'm saying guys. It's non gendered. But you got these people that go in and they only care about the sale. That's it. So they're hammering hard on people's pain points. There's a lot of guilt. There can be shame

[00:54:22] Rosie: Mm

[00:54:23] Heidi: You know, everything to get somebody just to make that sale. And that doesn't work for me. It just, that feels horrible to me. And it feels horrible to my clients. So I come in more from the outcome point of view of what are they going to do? How are they going to feel great? They're going to have different results. And when you come from that angle with people, sometimes it takes a little bit longer to make the sale, but if you're not hammering it, you're going to build trust and they're going to stay with you and it's going to be a better relationship overall, rather than is you have a choice in a business.

[00:54:56] You can either be transactional or you can build relationships. And I mean, if you look at some big company, like, I don't know, you guys have Walmart

[00:55:06] Rosie: We don't but we know, definitely know what it is.

[00:55:09] Heidi: Yeah. Yeah. So Walmart's transactional. I don't care what you do. Walmart is transactional as it can

[00:55:14] Rosie: Mm-Hmm.

[00:55:15] Heidi: So you can have a choice of building a business like that. All they care about is the next sale. That's it. They don't care about you. They care about your money. And you can build your business that way too. Or you can build a business more like, I don't know, do y'all have Costco? I know they're getting around

[00:55:29] Rosie: They have made their way here. Yes.

[00:55:32] Heidi: Yeah, well, they're more relationship

[00:55:34] Rosie: right? Mm-Hmm.

[00:55:35] Heidi: actually care for their people, care for their employees, and I know I'm using big corporations, but it's because a lot of people will recognize them. They actually, they give a shit. They pay fair wages. They have days off for their employees. They care about, they sell a membership.

[00:55:53] They sell fair prices. They sell good products. And you feel

[00:55:56] different when you shop there versus if I shop at Walmart. I feel entirely different. If I go to Walmart, I go in and get out. If I shop at Walmart, I don't like to shop there.

[00:56:07] Rosie: Mm

[00:56:08] Heidi: Because I do feel like just another number. And that's even for small businesses.

[00:56:13] We get under this misconception partly because, A, we need to make money, and you do need to make sales.

[00:56:21] So people sometimes lose track of that relationship's important because their desperation gets in the way.

[00:56:28] But if you continue with the building the relationships and you get to know your ideal client, you'll make sales immediately.

[00:56:36] You'll continue making sales and you'll build those relationships over time, but you'll still have people that will buy instantly.

[00:56:44] Rosie: Yeah. Yeah. And you've done this many times, so you know what you're talking about,

[00:56:50] Heidi: have and I do and I mean don't don't get me wrong. I think there's the thing too. We get sold this This message of, oh my god, let's, you're going to end up making consistent, we're just going to use 10k as an example here, because that, you know, the five

[00:57:06] Rosie: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:07] Heidi: You're going to make consistent 10k months across the board if you do this. Business doesn't always work that way. I quit focusing on the month to month. I actually focus on my quarters, because The quarter, I, I have a certain amount of clients I wanna sign per quarter because sometimes I've got a month or two, I don't sign a client.

[00:57:26] And then that next month, because I have a big event and I've been preparing for that event, and then that big event's where I sign all my clients,

[00:57:34] Rosie: Yeah.

[00:57:39] Heidi: your goal was for that month, not realizing that it's going to come because it's up and down.

[00:57:44] Income is up and down. It's not linear. In, in your own business. And it never will be. It does get more dependable of course,

[00:57:53] Rosie: Yeah. I want to go back to this relationship thing. I'm thinking of, you know, an experience I've had. So for example, I invested in, you know, a 6, 000 program a while

[00:58:04] back

[00:58:05] And it was awful

[00:58:08] because transactional.

[00:58:10] And I haven't recommended it to anyone, but I did make a friend

[00:58:14] from that course who, you know, I call him my 6,

[00:58:16] 000 friend. We both hated it, but I'm then thinking of,

[00:58:23] this is going to sound so random, but the dog trainers I take my

[00:58:26] puppy to, and they are in the most basic setup. They run their business out of their home. It's falling

[00:58:34] apart. They don't even have a website, but they just give so much. They care about me. They care

[00:58:42] about my dog.

[00:58:43] They invest so much time. I've recommended like four or five people to them and it's got them business. And I will continue to do that because it's not transactional at

[00:58:53] all. Like this stuff works.

[00:58:56] Heidi: it does. And that's just it. I mean, when you take the time to build the relationship, people will recommend you, they'll become your best cheerleaders and they'll keep passing you on and keep sending people your way, opportunities your way. And that's something you don't get when it's transactional. I mean, somebody might refer it because they like the product. I mean, if you had ended up liking that course, you probably still would have referred it even if it was transactional and you got what you wanted out of, but you didn't come away with a good feeling from it. So now you're not referring it at all. And yet your, your dog service there. I mean, you're just, you're

[00:59:37] happy to shout from the

[00:59:39] rooftops

[00:59:39] from them and that's something that people miss with, even with the social selling side of things. They miss when they send that cold DM that's wrong, addressed you wrong, maybe didn't even put your name in it. You could tell it was a copy and paste that nobody bothered to finish filling in the details. You know, and it's all this stuff.

[01:00:00] They're playing a numbers game. That's all they're doing. They're throwing darts in the wind and they're hoping it'll work. And it does. That's the reason they do it. There's no right or wrong way to market and I think that's one thing We really need to emphasize and I do so Yes, I teach it a certain way and I only help clients do it a certain way But i'm always happy to tell them that the other ways aren't wrong per se They just don't work for you It's not how you want to do it and that's not how it works for you to even buy And but it's okay.

[01:00:31] They all work and what if somebody wants to send out You A thousand of those are really bad cold dms from a copy and paste Great good for them. They're playing a numbers game. They probably get one or two percent of the people actually sign up as clients Are they

[01:00:47] happy? Hard to say. Don't know. It's so funny because I ask a lot of these questions.

[01:00:53] Does this work? Nobody will ever answer me. It's always like, you know, I'm marketing. I like to, I like to experiment. I like to see that side and I'm always, if some of them are a little bit chatty, I'm just like, so does this actually work for you? I mean, no, no judgment here. I just want to know, does this work?

[01:01:12] And nobody ever answers that question. Yes. They don't answer it no either, but I'm gonna assume if you're not answering me, the answer is it's not going with otherwise You'd be like, oh my god. Of course. It's

[01:01:23] Rosie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:01:27] I love the sound of the way you do business. And I think. The world would be a better place if more people did that. I truly do.

[01:01:37] Heidi: Well, I think that's what and I think we're moving more towards that people are People are tired of the traditional way of selling, of being, pain points being pushed, and just be having cells shoved down their throat, and being guilted into buying, and pressured into, high pressure cells are, you know.

[01:01:59] Don't get me wrong, they work, but it's because people get under, feel like they're, you know, under the gun of, Oh my God, I must do this now, or I'm going to miss out, because

[01:02:09] FOMO

[01:02:09] kicks

[01:02:10] Rosie: Oh yeah.

[01:02:13] Heidi: it's like, if I don't do this now, I'm going to miss out,

[01:02:16] but need to step back and realize and

[01:02:19] stop. Okay, fine.

[01:02:21] Maybe I didn't get the bonus or whatever. Is

[01:02:24] this The right program for you? Is this person the right person for you? Are you going to get what it is you're seeking out of it in the end. If you don't do that, then I don't care what it costs you. It's going to cost you a lot more on the other side. Because you're going to have to do it again with somebody else.

[01:02:43] If you didn't get the skills you

[01:02:45] Rosie: Right. Right.

[01:02:52] Heidi: let the FOMO kick in that, oh, my God, I'm going to miss out. Or, you know, this is, you know, And not truly do your homework. It's gonna cost you so

[01:03:02] much more. I mean, it it just is. I've been in bad programs too.

[01:03:09] And once again, I've been able to shift my perspective to what I was able to take from them. But a lot of times on the bad programs, I'm able to shift the perspective to the things that I don't want to

[01:03:18] Rosie: Well, yes, I've got very clear on that. And in fact, I have a follow up question. You know, in this program, you're taught to, you know, hound the person for the sale. Don't let them hang up. Like, why aren't you buying now? Like, let's go, let's take the payment now. What's your

[01:03:33] take on this?

[01:03:35] Heidi: you know, I was, I got exposed to a little bit of that this past year myself through a couple of trainers, and I don't agree.

[01:03:45] Rosie: Mm.

[01:03:46] Heidi: Yeah, there's been a couple of them with the don't hang up until you get the sale. No, no, you know, my clients, I would have not signed if I had done that. I was giving the example of Ash, the one who came on after a year.

[01:04:04] The advice I was given, because he came on earlier this year, and the

[01:04:07] advice I was given by the person I was working with at that time was, he didn't sign on the next call. It wasn't quite ready yet, and the advice was I shouldn't have let him off the call and

[01:04:23] that I should have got him to sign, it had been long enough, and honestly, unfortunately, I built a relationship with this person, and I actually got him back on a call just to ask him.

[01:04:34] Unfortunately, I asked people,

[01:04:35] and this is something people are scared to do. They don't want to hear feedback.

[01:04:38] Rosie: Right.

[01:04:39] Heidi: They're scared to ask for feedback because they're afraid it's going to be negative. But negative feedback is some of your best learning. If you only get told positive, you can't fix what's not working.

[01:04:49] So I will get people on a call and say, hey, why didn't you buy? Or like, unfortunately with Ash, I was able to say, would this tactic have worked with you if I had tried it? And he's like, you would have lost me.

[01:05:02] Rosie: Yeah.

[01:05:03] Heidi: And he actually signed the contract, I think it was two weeks

[01:05:06] Rosie: Wow. Yeah.

[01:05:09] Heidi: But I was able to, fortunately, I had built that relationship and I was able to get on the call and actually run it by him.

[01:05:16] He knew I wasn't selling him at that point. I truly wanted to know, would this have worked? And I've asked several of my clients that came on with this tactic have worked with you. And the answer has always been no, it would have turned them off and made them go somewhere else after I put all the effort into building the relationship.

[01:05:33] Rosie: Yeah. Yeah.

[01:05:35] Heidi: But I do think you have to do what works for you. I mean, if you're one of those people, you want to hold people hostage on a call until they, until you browbeat them into buying from you, is it going to be a good client relationship?

[01:05:47] I mean, in my experience, this tends to be when people buy impulsively or because they felt like they needed to buy, then honestly, you end up with clients from hell.

[01:05:57] Rosie: Mm. Mm.

[01:05:58] Heidi: They're not happy. You're not happy.

[01:06:01] Rosie: Yeah. Who would want that? Not me. No, thank you.

[01:06:05] What would you say

[01:06:07] to entrepreneurs out there that building a business

[01:06:10] that been kind of going at it a while, maybe a couple of years, and they're really struggling to make some traction.

[01:06:17] They're trying this approach you're talking about, the social selling that working their butts off, but the money's just not coming in. Do you have any advice or even insight on why you think that might be

[01:06:30] happening?

[01:06:31] Heidi: Honestly, they need to get help. And a lot of

[01:06:35] people say you say that just because you're in the industry and stuff, but no, the biggest reasons I was able to get over a lot of my blocks and stuff, because here's the thing, we're smart. I mean, you're capable of learning anything, but I also believe if you haven't been able to get past a certain point after a certain amount of time, there's something there for you that you actually need help and guidance, and I don't care whether that's free help, or a mentor, or the unpaid paid, or whatever In reality, most often it's going to be paid if you truly want to get there

[01:07:09] quicker.

[01:07:10] I see and that's just it. I mean, I work with more

[01:07:12] established business owners. People have been in business at

[01:07:14] least three years or more, and I've worked with ones up to 15 years in their

[01:07:18] business, and they're still struggling. And I don't understand why people won't invest in marketing skills.

[01:07:25] Because if you don't know how to market, you cannot make sales. And that's just how it is. I mean, you might, you'll accidentally end up on some and maybe you'll get a referral. I shouldn't say you won't make any sales. You can make some, but to consistently doing it, you do need to have a certain set of marketing skills and either you learn it. Or you don't. And a lot of people are like, I had one earlier this year, she's like, well, I'm gonna still work on learning it from YouTube. I'm like, great, go ahead. You know, you get help with someone, they're gonna have an organized approach, it's not gonna be scattered, and they're gonna guide you through it.

[01:08:01] Do your homework. Pick the right people. Invest well. I'm not saying go out and just buy anything, but nothing on YouTube is going to truly, I shouldn't say it won't get you there, because you can't, I've learned things from YouTube videos and stuff too. But to pull a complete strategy that's actually going to get you there, you're going to have to figure out what that strategy is.

[01:08:25] And I can tell you, nobody puts it out there in order,

[01:08:28] Rosie: Right. Right. Yeah.

[01:08:31] Heidi: you're going to get bits and pieces, and you're going to pull from different people and stuff. But if you truly want to get there, and you want to focus, get some help, find somebody you resonate with, and start. And I started off with a couple of free stuff.

[01:08:45] I mean, I was broke like everybody else. I started on broke. And I got there using their free stuff, and it moved me forward, and a lot of people think, because I don't think people value free stuff enough, they think it's free, it's not there, but I moved forward with free stuff, and it got me in the position to be able to buy from that coach, and then I've worked with them, and then I moved on to the next, and kept working that way.

[01:09:10] You have to want to do it.

[01:09:13] Rosie: Yeah.

[01:09:14] Heidi: I think for me, that is one of the most frustrating things I see. I see people right on the edge,

[01:09:20] and they're so unwilling to invest in themselves. Usually it's because they're, they're, I know a lot of them are like, well, what if I get taken? What if I waste my money? What if you do? What if you don't?

[01:09:31] Rosie: Right.

[01:09:32] Heidi: it is, you're still stuck in the same place you've been stuck for a couple of years now. How long do you want to stay stuck there? And I think that's the question people need to ask themselves and be honest about is how long do you want to stay stuck here?

[01:09:45] Rosie: Mm.

[01:09:46] Heidi: It doesn't, I know there's the thing that you must always have a coach or something like that, and I don't buy into that, I mean, I know I will always have some form of help off and on as I need it, but I take breaks between programs and figure out myself, that kind of stuff, but I do believe as a business owner, we don't have all the skills that you can learn them, and to learn them, you're going to have to go out there and learn them from somebody else.

[01:10:17] Rosie: Such good advice. You know, I think it's simple, right? But yeah, so many of us kind of

[01:10:24] struggle with that. Don't know what it is. I mean, we could go down a whole rabbit hole here, but let's not. I feel like we need a whole other series of episodes here. But there is a tradition on this podcast of a final question I ask my guests.

[01:10:38] So can you tell me what does freedom mean to you?

[01:10:43] Heidi: Freedom to me means having choices. The choices to live, do, and be the way you? want to be. Whatever that looks like. Not in somebody else's box, but in your terms. And that's truly what it is. My idea of being able to travel three to four months out of the year may not work for somebody else. But maybe you want to be able to go out and work at the local cafe or something, or you want to work in your backyard instead of your Mm. You still want, it's still location independence, and a lot of people want that. But freedom is the choice to be able to do that. And if you don't have those choices, then you don't have freedom. Mm. That's beautiful. Yeah. Heidi, thank you so much. We've discussed so many different things. I'm just kind of rewinding in my head going, okay, what are the, what are the key things that stand out for me? There are so many, but I think, you know, earlier in our conversation, you were talking about how business looks different for everybody and you need to figure out how you want

[01:11:50] Rosie: to do business.

[01:11:51] You know, and just before we were talking about social selling and that, you know, there's no right or wrong way, but you need to do what feels right. And can I just say this social selling sounds really good. I don't have any experience, but that's the direction I want to go in. And I, I,

[01:12:08] you know, I could see it.

[01:12:09] works.

[01:12:10] And then we even touched on, you know, abuse and your advice of two very simple things, get out, and do it safely, keep yourself safe. I think that's, that's just amazing. And then going back to your definition of freedom, being location independent, look where it got you. I think it's amazing.

[01:12:29] Look where you can get. I think it's just wonderful.

[01:12:33] Heidi: It is. I mean, it's, yeah, it's funny. Conversations like this make you dig into it in ways you hadn't thought Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this has been amazing, Heidi. And like I said, I feel like there's more conversations we could have, so we'll see where that goes, but Thank you once again. Yeah, let's do it. Hey, thank you.

[01:12:57] Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

[01:12:59] Rosie: If this episode resonated with you at all, could I please ask that you share it with a friend who you think could get value from it? And whilst you're doing that, make sure you follow and subscribe to the podcast so that you never miss another episode. And whilst you're following or subscribing, please leave us a rating.

[01:13:18] Preferably five stars and also a written review doing each of these things is going to help this podcast, reach more people and impact more lives, which is at the end of the day is what we're here to do. Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Remember you matter. You're worth it. And you are so, so capable.

[01:13:41] Take care of yourself and I'll see you next week.